<div dir="ltr"><span id="gmail-docs-internal-guid-805f31fb-8748-d82f-6120-65e52f2980f3"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial;font-size:14.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap">In preparation for the next TC meeting, a survey was sent out to driver maintainers, here is a summary of the feedback that was gathered.</span><br></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Major observations</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">==================</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Are drivers an important part of OpenStack? YES!</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Discoverability of drivers needs to be fixed immediately.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* It is important to have visibility in a central place of the status of each driver.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Perspective of a driver developer and a high level person at the company should feel like they're part of something.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* OpenStack should stop treating drivers like second-class citizens. They want access to the same resources (publish on <a href="http://docs.o.org">docs.o.org</a>, config guides, etc).</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* The initial wording about what constitutes a project was never intended for drivers. Drivers are a part of the project. Driver developers contribute to OpenStack by creating drivers.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Discoverability</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">===============</span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* </span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial;font-size:14.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap">Consensus: </span><span style="background-color:transparent;font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">It is currently all over the place. </span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial;font-size:14.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap">A common mechanism to view all supported drivers is needed.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Cinder list: </span><a href="http://docs.openstack.org/developer/cinder/drivers.html" style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">http://docs.openstack.org/developer/cinder/drivers.html</span></a><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Nova list: </span><a href="http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/support-matrix.html" style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/support-matrix.html</span></a><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Stackalytics list: </span><a href="http://stackalytics.openstack.org/report/driverlog" style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">http://stackalytics.openstack.org/report/driverlog</span></a><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: If we intend to use the marketplace (or anywhere on <a href="http://openstack.org">openstack.org</a>) to list in-tree and out-of-tree drivers, they should have CI results available as a requirement. A driver that fails CI is not just a vendor problem, it’s an OpenStack problem, it reflects poorly on OpenStack and the project.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: What constitutes a supported driver, why not list all drivers?</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: Fixing discoverability can be done independently of governance changes. We have the option of tabling the governance discussion until we get the discoverability properly fixed, and see then if we still need to do anything more.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: Between giving full access to vertical resources to driver teams, and making the marketplace *the* place for learning about OpenStack drivers, we would have solved at least the biggest portion of the problem we're facing.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Driver projects - official or not?</font></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">==================================</font></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Fact: There is desire from some out-of-tree vendors to become ‘official’ OpenStack projects, and gain the benefits of that (access to horizontal teams).</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: Let drivers projects become official, there should be no 3rd party CI requirement, that can be a tag.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: Do not allow drivers projects to become official, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t easily be discoverable.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: We don't need to open the flood gates of allowing vendors to be teams in the OpenStack governance to make the vendors developers happy.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Fact: This implies being placed under the TC oversight. It is a significant move that could have unintended side-effects, it is hard to reverse (kicking out teams we accepted is worse than not including them in the first place), and our community is divided on the way forward. So we need to give that question our full attention and not rush the answer.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: Consider </span><a href="https://github.com/openstack/driverlog" style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">https://github.com/openstack/driverlog</span></a><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> an official OpenStack project to be listed under governance with a PTL, weekly meetings, and all that it required to allow the team to be effective in their mission of keeping the marketplace a trustworthy resource for learning about OpenStack driver ecosystem.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Driver developers</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=================</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: A driver developer that ONLY contributes to vendor specific driver code should not have the same influence as other OpenStack developers, voting for PTL, TC, and ATC status.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> * Opinion: PTLs should leverage the extra-atcs option in the governance repo</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">In-tree vs Out-of-tree</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">======================</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Cinder has in-tree drivers, but also has out-of-tree drivers when their CI is not maintained or when minimum feature requirements are not met. They are marked as ‘not supported’ and have a single release to get things working before being moved out-of-tree.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Ironic has a single out-of-tree repo: </span><a href="https://github.com/openstack/ironic-staging-drivers" style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">https://github.com/openstack/ironic-staging-drivers</span></a><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> -- But also in-tree </span><a href="https://github.com/openstack/ironic/tree/master/ironic/drivers" style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">https://github.com/openstack/ironic/tree/master/ironic/drivers</span></a><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Neutron has all drivers out-of-tree, with project names like: ‘networking-cisco’.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Many opinions on the “stick-based” approach the cinder team took.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: The in-tree vs out-of-tree argument is developer focused. Out-of-tree drivers have obvious benefits (develop quickly, maintain their own team, no need for a core to review the patch). But a vendor that is looking to make sure a driver is supported will not be searching git repos (goes back to discoverability).</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">* Opinion: May be worth handling the projects that keep supported drivers in-tree differently that we handle projects that have everything out-of-tree.</span></p><div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;font-family:arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">thanks for reading! stevemar</span></div></span></div>