<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:10 PM, Doug Hellmann <<a href="mailto:doug@doughellmann.com" class="">doug@doughellmann.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Excerpts from Doug Wiegley's message of 2016-10-18 12:00:35 -0600:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Oct 18, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Doug Hellmann <<a href="mailto:doug@doughellmann.com" class="">doug@doughellmann.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Excerpts from Doug Wiegley's message of 2016-10-18 09:59:54 -0600:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:14 AM, Ian Cordasco <<a href="mailto:sigmavirus24@gmail.com" class="">sigmavirus24@gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:sigmavirus24@gmail.com" class="">mailto:sigmavirus24@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: Thierry Carrez <<a href="mailto:thierry@openstack.org" class="">thierry@openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:thierry@openstack.org" class="">mailto:thierry@openstack.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:thierry@openstack.org" class="">mailto:thierry@openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:thierry@openstack.org" class="">mailto:thierry@openstack.org</a>>>><br class="">Reply: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>>><br class="">Date: October 18, 2016 at 03:55:41<br class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>> <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>>><br class="">Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [requirements][lbaas] gunicorn to g-r<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Doug Wiegley wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">[...] Paths forward:<br class=""><br class="">1. Add gunicorn to global requirements.<br class=""><br class="">2. Create a project specific “amphora-requirements.txt” file for the<br class="">service VM packages (this is actually my preference.) It has been<br class="">pointed out that this wouldn’t be kept up-to-date by the bot. We could<br class="">modify the bot to include it in some way, or do it manually, or with a<br class="">project specific job.<br class=""><br class="">3. Split our service VM builds into another repo, to keep a clean<br class="">separation between API services and the backend. But, even this new<br class="">repo’s standlone requirements.txt file will have the g-r issue from #1.<br class=""><br class="">4. Boot the backend out of OpenStack entirely.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">All those options sound valid to me, so the requirements team should<br class="">pick what they are the most comfortable with.<br class=""><br class="">My 2c: yes g-r is mostly about runtime dependencies and ensuring<br class="">co-installability. However it also includes test/build-time deps, and<br class="">generally converging dependencies overall sounds like a valid goal. Is<br class="">there any drawback in adding gunicorn to g-r (option 1) ?<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">The drawback (in my mind) is that new projects might start using it giving operators yet another thing to learn about when deploying a new component (eventlet, gevent, gunicorn, ...).<br class=""><br class="">On the flip, what's the benefit of adding it to g-r?<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">The positive benefit is the same as Octavia’s use case: it provides an alternative for any non-frontline-api service to run a lightweight http/wsgi service as needed (service VMs, health monitor agents, etc). And something better than the built-in debug servers in most of the frameworks.<br class=""><br class="">On the proliferation point, it is certainly a risk, though I’ve personally heard pretty strong guidance that all main API services in our community should be trending towards pecan.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Pecan is a way to build WSGI applications. Gunicorn is a way to deploy<br class="">them. So they're not mutually exclusive.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Right, agreed.<br class=""><br class="">What we’re trying to convey here is:<br class=""><br class="">- The normal way of making a REST endpoint in OpenStack is to use pecan (or flask or falcon), and let the deployer or packager worry about the runtime wsgi and/or reverse proxy.<br class=""><br class="">- This isn't a “normal” OpenStack endpoint, because it’s a microservice inside a service VM, and thus has different needs, and is much less likely to be customized by a non-dev, to boot. And it needs to be “deploy ready” as a simple matter of it being a service VM black box. It’s part of the data plane, not the control plane.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class="">doug<br class=""></blockquote><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">That all seems reasonable.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">We have a proliferation of these service VMs. It would be good to</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">get some of the folks involved together to start a working group</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to see if there are some commonalities that can lead to shared</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">processes or tools.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>That’s a good idea. I wonder if we can organize something in time for next week. I don’t think we should wait to make forward progress for that, but there is definitely some commonality we should be defining and striving towards.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>doug</div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Doug</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">Doug<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class="">doug<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">-- <br class="">Ian Cordasco<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">__________________________________________________________________________<br class="">OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br class="">Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org" class="">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a>>>?subject:unsubscribe<br class=""><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" class="">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" class="">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>> <<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" class="">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" class="">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>>><br class=""></blockquote></blockquote><br class="">__________________________________________________________________________<br class="">OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br class="">Unsubscribe: <a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org" class="">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a> <<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org" class="">mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a>>?subject:unsubscribe<br class=""><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" class="">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a> <<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" class="">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>><br class=""></blockquote></blockquote><br style="font-family: Helvetica; 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