<div dir="ltr"><div>It can be cheap if you are in the US. However, for Asia folks, it is not that cheap considering it is all overseas travel. In addition, all-in-one event like the current summit makes us much easier to get the travel fund from the company, since the company only need to send everyone (tech, ops, business, strategy) to one event. Even as an ops or developers, doing presentation or a meeting with one or two important company can be very good excuse to get the travel money.   </div><div> <br></div><div>I understand the needs of separate event to make developers stay focused. I am just sharing my experience here how difficult for us to get fund for overseas event more than once per year. For my case as ops (previously) and product manager (now), even though I don't code actively, attending design summit (and interacting with developers) has been very helpful to understand what is really going to in openstack so that I can make right decision.  </div><div><br></div><div>Just sharing my opinion. </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:42 PM John Davidge <<a href="mailto:John.Davidge@rackspace.com">John.Davidge@rackspace.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_msg">Steve,</div>
<div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">Why just the one summit? Each cycle has a PTG and a summit, which makes 4 events per year.</div>
<div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">John</div>
<div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg">
</div>
<span id="m_5812538821288460080OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class="gmail_msg">
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt" class="gmail_msg">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="gmail_msg">From: </span>"Steven Dake (stdake)" <<a href="mailto:stdake@cisco.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">stdake@cisco.com</a>></div></span></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="gmail_msg"><span id="m_5812538821288460080OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class="gmail_msg"><div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt" class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="gmail_msg">Reply-To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
</div></span></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="gmail_msg"><span id="m_5812538821288460080OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class="gmail_msg"><div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt" class="gmail_msg"><span style="font-weight:bold" class="gmail_msg">Date: </span>Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 3:25 PM</div></span></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="gmail_msg"><span id="m_5812538821288460080OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class="gmail_msg"><div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt" class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="gmail_msg">To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
</div></span></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="gmail_msg"><span id="m_5812538821288460080OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class="gmail_msg"><div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt" class="gmail_msg"><span style="font-weight:bold" class="gmail_msg">Subject: </span>Re: [openstack-dev] PTG from the Ops Perspective - a few short notes<br class="gmail_msg">
</div></span></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="gmail_msg"><span id="m_5812538821288460080OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class="gmail_msg">
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<div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" class="gmail_msg">
<div class="m_5812538821288460080WordSection1 gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg">Clint,<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg">RE 3 - I do understand purpose of PTGs.   Prior many engineering orgs didn’t send many people to midcycles (where a lot of work got done – more so than summit even).  The 3 events are 2
 PTGS + 1 summit (although I don’t know the length of the PTGs)<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg">Regards<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg">-steve<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" class="gmail_msg">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><b class="gmail_msg"><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black" class="gmail_msg">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Clint Byrum <<a href="mailto:clint@fewbar.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">clint@fewbar.com</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
<b class="gmail_msg">Reply-To: </b>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
<b class="gmail_msg">Date: </b>Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 12:51 AM<br class="gmail_msg">
<b class="gmail_msg">To: </b>openstack-dev <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
<b class="gmail_msg">Subject: </b>Re: [openstack-dev] PTG from the Ops Perspective - a few short notes<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Excerpts from Steven Dake (stdake)'s message of 2016-10-12 06:42:43 +0000:<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id="m_5812538821288460080MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" class="gmail_msg">
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Tom,<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">No flame, just observation about the reality of these changes.<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">I think we missed this communication on the mailing list or in the FAQs or somewhere else.  I think most engineering-focused organizations are looking at the PTGs only and
 not really considering the summit for budget planning.  If folks knew the operators were only going to be at the OpenStack Summit, I think that may change budget planning for engineering organizations.  Seems like more siloing to me, not less.  We need to
 integrate OpenStack’s development with Operators as well as the Operator’s customers (the cloud consumers the Operators deliver to).<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Does the foundation not want to co-locate the ops summit at the PTG because the ops summit feeds into the OpenStack Summit main ops day(s)?<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Agree, on the surface it looks like this adds a brick or two on top of<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">the existing wall that devs throw things over.<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">However, I think the reality is those bricks were already there, and<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">we've all been pretending this isn't what is already happening.<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">So, while I do want to make sure enough of our architects and designers<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">go to the summit to truly understand user needs, I also think it has<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">been proven ineffective to also throw all of the coders into that mix and<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">expect them to be productive.<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">I recall many of us huddled in the dev pit and at parties at summits<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">trying desperately to have deep technical conversations while the<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">maelstrom was happening around us. And then the few who were fortunate<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">enough to go to the mid-cycle would get into quiet rooms for a few days,<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">and _actually_ design the things our users need, but 3 months late,<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">and basically for the next release.<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id="m_5812538821288460080MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" class="gmail_msg">
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">I don’t have any easy solutions for this problem, but the expectation that project developers are required at 3 week-long events instead of 2 wasn’t clearly communicated and
 should be rectified beyond a post to the openstack-dev mailing list where most people filter messages by tags (i.e. your message is probably not reaching the correct audience).<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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</blockquote>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Where did you get three?<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">PTG - write code, design things (replaces mid-cycles)<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Summit - listen to users, showcase designs, state plans for next release<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">__________________________________________________________________________<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_msg">
<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg">Unsubscribe:
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a>?subject:unsubscribe<u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><u class="gmail_msg"></u><u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black" class="gmail_msg"><u class="gmail_msg"></u> <u class="gmail_msg"></u></span></p>
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</span></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="gmail_msg"><hr class="gmail_msg">
Rackspace Limited is a company registered in England & Wales (company registered number 03897010) whose registered office is at 5 Millington Road, Hyde Park Hayes, Middlesex UB3 4AZ. Rackspace Limited privacy policy can be viewed at <a href="http://www.rackspace.co.uk/legal/privacy-policy" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">www.rackspace.co.uk/legal/privacy-policy</a>
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 by e-mail at <a href="mailto:abuse@rackspace.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">abuse@rackspace.com</a> and delete the original message. Your cooperation is appreciated.
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</blockquote></div></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><p dir="ltr">Jaesuk Ahn, Ph.D. </p>
<p dir="ltr">SDI Tech. Lab, SK Telecom </p>
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