<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div></div><div style="direction: inherit;"><br></div><div><br>On Oct 12, 2016, at 4:09 AM, Qiming Teng <<a href="mailto:tengqim@linux.vnet.ibm.com">tengqim@linux.vnet.ibm.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 10:39:11PM -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hello Tom,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I must say I think this is bad news - especially for projects like</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Kolla - ops centric.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>One of reasons we created PTG in the first place is that Summit became</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>big and expensive, and project developers had harder and harder time</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>attending it due to budget issues.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>So a trip to PTG is really cheaper than summit? Is the PTG one</span><br><span>sponsored by someone?</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>PTG would offer many of these devs</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>opportunity to talk to their peers, other project developers and build</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>OpenStack dev community.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>If project attends PTG, and most of them</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>plans to (again, Kolla included), that is a travel for project team.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>A big IF here ...</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>If we hold 2 PTGs per year, that's big hit on travel budget (but still</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>smaller than summit).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>PTG becomes very important for project team, summit arguably will</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>become less important as many of developers will be able to afford</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>only PTGs.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>Summit is less (or just NOT) important to developers, emm ... that is</span><br><span>true if 1) the team knows exactly what users/ops want so they don't even</span><br><span>bother interact with them, just focus on getting things done; 2) the</span><br><span>person who approves your trip request also believes so.</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>If we say that "Don't expect Ops at PTG", that means</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>OpenStack dev community will become even more disconnected from Ops</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>community.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>Wasn't that part of the plan? Or maybe the Ops will travel four times a</span><br><span>year, go to the summit twice for (watching) shows and go to the PTGs</span><br><span>twice to interact with the team that is busy discussing implementation</span><br><span>details ...</span><br></div></blockquote><div style="direction: inherit;">My understanding is there will be two ops meetups (as there are currently) with one being aligned with the OpenStack summit and one being during the mid-cycle window (although not at the PTG itself). I think this could still work if a few people from the technical leadership of the project attend the summit/Forum (the new combined event for discussing user needs/feedback). </div><div style="direction: inherit;"><br></div><div style="direction: inherit;">This would mean that the majority of the engineering organization doesn't need to be at the summit but a few cores/PTL from a project should still plan to attend and then share their findings/discussions with the broader project team. This would also mean that travel doesn't change for a few people per project but the majority of the team can plan on attending just the PTGs from a budgeting perspective.</div><div style="direction: inherit;"><br></div><div style="direction: inherit;">This would also help establish a cadence for activities at the ops meetups:</div><div style="direction: inherit;">The ops meetups aligned with the summits could be used to share feedback/discuss pain points </div><div style="direction: inherit;">The ops meetups during the mid-cycle could be used to identify new items that are priority and there is a need to share feedback/discuss pain points on.</div><div style="direction: inherit;"><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="direction: inherit;"><br></div><span></span><blockquote type="cite"><span>Let's not forget that OpenStack is ultimately operators</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>tool, they need to care for it and in my opinion having close</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>relationship with them is extremely important for good of project. If</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>we raise cost of keeping this relationship, that might really hurt</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>OpenStack.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cheers,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Michal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>I really hope I was totally wrong.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Regards,</span><br><span> Qiming</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>__________________________________________________________________________</span><br><span>OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)</span><br><span>Unsubscribe: <a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a>?subject:unsubscribe</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>