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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Clint,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">RE 3 - I do understand purpose of PTGs. Prior many engineering orgs didn’t send many people to midcycles (where a lot of work got done – more so than summit even). The 3 events are 2
PTGS + 1 summit (although I don’t know the length of the PTGs)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">-steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Clint Byrum <clint@fewbar.com><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 12:51 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>openstack-dev <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [openstack-dev] PTG from the Ops Perspective - a few short notes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Excerpts from Steven Dake (stdake)'s message of 2016-10-12 06:42:43 +0000:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Tom,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">No flame, just observation about the reality of these changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">I think we missed this communication on the mailing list or in the FAQs or somewhere else. I think most engineering-focused organizations are looking at the PTGs only and
not really considering the summit for budget planning. If folks knew the operators were only going to be at the OpenStack Summit, I think that may change budget planning for engineering organizations. Seems like more siloing to me, not less. We need to
integrate OpenStack’s development with Operators as well as the Operator’s customers (the cloud consumers the Operators deliver to).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Does the foundation not want to co-locate the ops summit at the PTG because the ops summit feeds into the OpenStack Summit main ops day(s)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Agree, on the surface it looks like this adds a brick or two on top of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">the existing wall that devs throw things over.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">However, I think the reality is those bricks were already there, and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">we've all been pretending this isn't what is already happening.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">So, while I do want to make sure enough of our architects and designers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">go to the summit to truly understand user needs, I also think it has<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">been proven ineffective to also throw all of the coders into that mix and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">expect them to be productive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">I recall many of us huddled in the dev pit and at parties at summits<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">trying desperately to have deep technical conversations while the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">maelstrom was happening around us. And then the few who were fortunate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">enough to go to the mid-cycle would get into quiet rooms for a few days,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">and _actually_ design the things our users need, but 3 months late,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">and basically for the next release.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">I don’t have any easy solutions for this problem, but the expectation that project developers are required at 3 week-long events instead of 2 wasn’t clearly communicated and
should be rectified beyond a post to the openstack-dev mailing list where most people filter messages by tags (i.e. your message is probably not reaching the correct audience).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Where did you get three?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">PTG - write code, design things (replaces mid-cycles)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Summit - listen to users, showcase designs, state plans for next release<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">__________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Unsubscribe:
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a>?subject:unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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