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<div>ODL has support for sfc w NSH. Why would ONOS count as backend and ODL not?</div>
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<div id="AppleMailSignature">Uri<br>
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Sent from my iPhone</div>
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On May 21, 2016, at 11:26 AM, Henry Fourie <<a href="mailto:louis.fourie@huawei.com">louis.fourie@huawei.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Doug,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Networking-sfc API currently has two reference SFC implementations that are open source:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">the OVS driver and the ONOS driver. Work is also in progress for an ODL SFC driver and an OVN<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">driver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Louis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Doug Wiegley [<a href="mailto:dougwig@parksidesoftware.com">mailto:dougwig@parksidesoftware.com</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2016 5:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron][TC] support of NSH in networking-SFC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In a nutshell, you’ve got it, you can’t add an API without a reference implementation, including data-plane, which has to be open-source (though does not have to itself be openstack.)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Especially
as Stadium, can we let Neutron to lead the industry, given broad enough community interest?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">You can do anything you want outside the stadium, which is where experimental/incubation is meant to happen. Inside the stadium means, “official openstack project”, which means it has an open-source implementation.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If all backends are closed-source, it’s not open as openstack defines it: <a href="https://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html">https://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">There isn’t any wiggle room there. This isn’t a neutron argument; feel free to take it up with the TC.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">doug<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On May 20, 2016, at 6:37 PM, Elzur, Uri <<a href="mailto:uri.elzur@intel.com">uri.elzur@intel.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Armando, Cathy, All</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">First I apologize for the delay, returning from a week long international trip. (yes, I know, a lousy excuse on many accounts…)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If I’m attempting to summarize all the responses, it seems like</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A
given abstraction in Neutron is allowed (e.g. in support of SFC), preferably not specific to a given technology e.g. NSH for SFC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A
stadium project is not held to the same tests (but we do not have a “formal” model here, today) and therefore can support even a specific technology e.g. NSH (definitely better with abstractions to meet Neutron standards for future integration)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There
still is a chicken and egg phenomenon… how can a technology become main stream with OPEN SOURCE support if we can’t get an OpenStack to support the required abstractions<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><u>before</u><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>the
technology was adopted elsewhere??</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Especially
as Stadium, can we let Neutron to lead the industry, given broad enough community interest?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">BTW,
in this particular case, there originally has been a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><u>direct</u><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ODL access as a NSH solution (i.e. NO OpenStack option), then we got Tacker (now an Neutron Stadium project,
if I get it right) to support SFC and NSH, but we are still told that networking-sfc (another Neutron Stadium project ) can’t do the same….</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Also
regarding the following comment made on another message in this thread, “As to OvS features, I guess the OvS ml is a better place, but wonder if the Neutron community wants to hold itself hostage to the pace of other projects who are reluctant to adopt a
feature”, what I mean is again, that chicken and egg situation as above. Personally, I think OpenStack Neutron should allow mechanisms that are of interest / value to the networking community at large, to “ experiment with the abstraction” as you stated,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><u>independent
of other organizations/projects</u>…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">SOOO, is the bottom line that we agree that supporting NSH explicitly in networking-sfc can be added now?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thx</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Uri (“Oo-Ree”)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">C: 949-378-7568</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_____replyseparator"></a><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Armando
M. [<a href="mailto:armamig@gmail.com">mailto:armamig@gmail.com</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 13, 2016 5:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Cathy Zhang <<a href="mailto:Cathy.H.Zhang@huawei.com">Cathy.H.Zhang@huawei.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] support of NSH in networking-SFC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 13 May 2016 at 16:01, Cathy Zhang <<a href="mailto:Cathy.H.Zhang@huawei.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Cathy.H.Zhang@huawei.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Uri,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Current networking-sfc API allows the user to specify the data path SFC encapsulation mechanism and NSH could be one of the encapsulation options.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But since OVS release has not supported the NSH yet, we have to wait until NSH is added into OVS and then start to support the NSH encapsulation mechanism
in the data path.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">One can support NSH whichever way they see fit. NSH in OVS is not something Neutron can do anything about. Neutron is about defining abstractions that can apply to a variety of technologies and experiment with what open source component
is available on the shelves. Anyone can take the abstraction and deliver whatever technology stack they want with it and we'd happily gather any feedback to iterate on the abstraction to address more and more use case.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AFAIK, it is the position of Neutron to have any OVS related new features developed inside the OVS community.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cathy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Elzur,
Uri [mailto:<a href="mailto:uri.elzur@intel.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">uri.elzur@intel.com</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 13, 2016 3:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions); Armando M<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[openstack-dev] [Neutron] support of NSH in networking-SFC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_5375375125506740348__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Armando</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As an industry we are working on SFC for 3 years or so (more?). Still to date, we are told we can’t get Neutron or even a Stadium project e.g. networking-SFC
to support NSH (in IETF LC phase) because OvS has not supported NSH. Is this an official position of Neutron that OvS is the gold standard to support any new feature?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We have seen OvS support other overlays that are not ahead of VXLAN-gpe in the IETF.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thx</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Uri (“Oo-Ree”)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">C:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:949-378-7568" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">949-378-7568</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">__________________________________________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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