<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
        {font-family:Wingdings;
        panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
        {font-family:"Cambria Math";
        panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Tahoma;
        panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {margin:0in;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:blue;
        text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:purple;
        text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
        {mso-style-priority:34;
        margin-top:0in;
        margin-right:0in;
        margin-bottom:0in;
        margin-left:.5in;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.EmailStyle17
        {mso-style-type:personal-reply;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
        {size:8.5in 11.0in;
        margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
        {mso-list-id:430050680;
        mso-list-type:hybrid;
        mso-list-template-ids:-1842987880 41962640 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;}
@list l0:level1
        {mso-level-start-at:0;
        mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:Symbol;
        mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;}
@list l0:level2
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:o;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:o;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:o;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-.25in;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
        {margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
        {margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Armando, Cathy, All<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">First I apologize for the delay, returning from a week long international trip. (yes, I know,  a lousy excuse on many accounts…)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If I’m attempting to summarize all the responses, it seems like
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">A given abstraction in Neutron is allowed (e.g. in support of SFC), preferably not specific to a given technology e.g. NSH for
 SFC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">A stadium project is not held to the same tests (but we do not have a “formal” model here, today) and therefore can support even
 a specific technology e.g. NSH (definitely better with abstractions to meet Neutron standards for future integration)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">However,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">There still is a chicken and egg phenomenon… how can a technology become main stream with OPEN SOURCE support  if we can’t get
 an OpenStack to support the required abstractions <u>before</u> the technology was adopted elsewhere??
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">  
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Especially as Stadium, can we let Neutron to lead the industry, given broad enough community interest?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">BTW,  in this particular case, there originally has been a
<u>direct</u> ODL access as a NSH solution (i.e. NO OpenStack option), then we got Tacker (now an Neutron Stadium project, if I get it right) to support SFC and NSH, but we are still told that networking-sfc (another Neutron Stadium project ) can’t do the same….
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Also regarding the  following comment made on another message in this thread, “</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As
 to OvS features, I guess the OvS ml is a better place, but wonder if the Neutron community wants to hold itself hostage to the pace of other projects who are reluctant to adopt a feature</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">”,
 what I mean is again, that chicken and egg situation as above. Personally, I think OpenStack Neutron should allow mechanisms that are of interest / value to the networking community at large, to “ experiment with the abstraction” as you stated,
<u>independent of other organizations/projects</u>…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">SOOO, is the bottom line that we agree that supporting NSH explicitly in networking-sfc can be added now?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thx<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Uri (“Oo-Ree”)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">C: 949-378-7568<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_____replyseparator"></a><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Armando M. [mailto:armamig@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2016 5:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Cathy Zhang <Cathy.H.Zhang@huawei.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] support of NSH in networking-SFC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 13 May 2016 at 16:01, Cathy Zhang <<a href="mailto:Cathy.H.Zhang@huawei.com" target="_blank">Cathy.H.Zhang@huawei.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Uri,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Current networking-sfc API allows the user to specify the data path SFC encapsulation mechanism and
 NSH could be one of the encapsulation options. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">But since OVS release has not supported the NSH yet, we have to wait until  NSH is added into OVS and
 then start to support the NSH encapsulation mechanism in the data path.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One can support NSH whichever way they see fit. NSH in OVS is not something Neutron can do anything about. Neutron is about defining abstractions that can apply to a variety of technologies and experiment with what open source component
 is available on the shelves. Anyone can take the abstraction and deliver whatever technology stack they want with it and we'd happily gather any feedback to iterate on the abstraction to address more and more use case.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">AFAIK, it is the position of Neutron to have any OVS related new features developed inside the OVS
 community. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cathy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Elzur, Uri [mailto:<a href="mailto:uri.elzur@intel.com" target="_blank">uri.elzur@intel.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2016 3:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions); Armando M<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [openstack-dev] [Neutron] support of NSH in networking-SFC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="m_5375375125506740348__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Armando</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As an industry we are working on SFC for 3 years or so (more?). Still to date, we are told we can’t
 get Neutron or even a Stadium project e.g. networking-SFC to support NSH (in IETF LC phase) because OvS has not supported NSH. Is this an official position of Neutron that OvS is the gold standard to support any new feature?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We have seen OvS support other overlays that are not ahead of VXLAN-gpe in the IETF.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thx</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Uri (“Oo-Ree”)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">C:
<a href="tel:949-378-7568" target="_blank">949-378-7568</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>