<div dir="ltr">++, exactly my thoughts.<div><br></div><div>I believe most people don't vote 0 for questions about the change because 'it won't count'.</div><div>That's really bad, IMHO 0 should be for asking things not clear in the patch, whereas a -1 should be a 'this code here is not right'.</div><div><br></div><div>I believe the 0s should be tracked somehow.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-04-10 18:08 GMT+02:00 Joshua Harlow <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:harlowja@fastmail.com" target="_blank">harlowja@fastmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">+1 from me also,<br>
<br>
I also use +0 for question asking and the like, because IMHO that's not what -1 are for. As for myself losing stackalytics stats when *I* do this (ie using +0 instead of -1), meh, I got better things in my life to think/care about :-P<br>
<br>
-Josh<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Nikhil Komawar wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thanks Amrith!<br>
<br>
I am a big supporter on including +0s.<br>
<br>
On 4/9/16 6:31 PM, Amrith Kumar wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thanks to Dims and Steve for bringing this up.<br>
<br>
It has long been my opinion that +0's are invaluable for the question asking, and for getting to understand software, and unfortunately +0's are lost in the noise. So a while ago, I posted to the ML [1] asking about making +0's more visible. I signed up to submit a request on gerrit upstream (and promptly forgot to do that). This mail thread has reminded me of that. I have now posted a request for the upstream gerrit folks to fix [2].<br>
<br>
I believe that people don't use +0's enough because they often get ignored. I know that one can be cynical and say it is because it gives one no credit in stackalytics; I choose not to be that person.<br>
<br>
I post +0's a lot. But, I find that they are often ignored. If you agree with me that +0's are useful, and could be highlighted better in the gerrit review screen, please post a comment on [2].<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
-amrith<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="http://openstack.markmail.org/thread/nj4onttaibjmfxew" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://openstack.markmail.org/thread/nj4onttaibjmfxew</a><br>
[2] <a href="https://code.google.com/p/gerrit/issues/detail?id=4050" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://code.google.com/p/gerrit/issues/detail?id=4050</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Matt Riedemann [mailto:<a href="mailto:mriedem@linux.vnet.ibm.com" target="_blank">mriedem@linux.vnet.ibm.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 9:43 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][stackalytics] Gaming the Stackalytics<br>
stats<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 4/8/2016 5:54 PM, Jay Faulkner wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I know a lot of folks explicitly avoid a +0 vote with a comment<br>
because you don't get "credit" for it in statistics. Whether or not<br>
that should matter is another discussion, but there is a significant<br>
disincentive to no-voting right now.<br>
<br>
<br>
-<br>
<br>
Jay Faulkner<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
--<br>
*From:* Dolph Mathews<<a href="mailto:dolph.mathews@gmail.com" target="_blank">dolph.mathews@gmail.com</a>><br>
*Sent:* Friday, April 8, 2016 1:54 PM<br>
*To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
*Subject:* Re: [openstack-dev] [all][stackalytics] Gaming the<br>
Stackalytics stats<br>
<br>
<br>
On Friday, April 8, 2016, John Dickinson<<a href="mailto:me@not.mn" target="_blank">me@not.mn</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:me@not.mn" target="_blank">me@not.mn</a>>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8 Apr 2016, at 13:35, Jeremy Stanley wrote:<br>
<br>
> On 2016-04-08 19:42:18 +0200 (+0200), Dmitry Tantsur wrote:<br>
>> There are many ways to game a simple +1 counter, such as +1'ing<br>
changes<br>
>> that already have at least 1x +2, or which already approved, or<br>
which need<br>
>> rechecking...<br>
> [...]<br>
><br>
> The behavior which baffles me, and also seems to be on the rise<br>
> lately, is random +1 votes on changes whose commit messages<br>
</blockquote>
and/or<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> status clearly indicate they should not merged and do not need to<br>
</blockquote>
be<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> reviewed. I suppose that's another an easy way to avoid the<br>
</blockquote>
dreaded<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> "disagreements" counter?<br>
> --<br>
> Jeremy Stanley<br>
<br>
<br>
I have been told that some OpenStack on boarding teaches new members<br>
of the community to do reviews. And they say, effectively, "muddle<br>
through as you can. You won't understand it all at first, but do<br>
your best. When you're done, add a +1 and move to the next one"<br>
<br>
<br>
I advocate for basically this, but instead of a +1, leave a +0 and ask<br>
questions. The new reviewer will inevitably learn something and the<br>
author will benefit by explaining their change (teaching is the best<br>
way to learn).<br>
<br>
<br>
I've been working to correct this when I've seen it, but +1 reviews<br>
with no comments might not be people trying to game. It might simply<br>
be people trying to get involved that don't know any better yet.<br>
<br>
--John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
There is also disincentive in +1ing a change that you don't understand and<br>
is wrong and then a core comes along and -1s it (you get dinged for the<br>
disagreement). And there is disincentive in -1ing a change for the wrong<br>
reasons (silly nits or asking questions for understanding). I ask a lot of<br>
questions in a lot of changes and I don't vote on those because it would<br>
be inappropriate.<br>
<br>
I also notice when "newcomers" are asking good questions for understanding<br>
and not voting on them, it shows me they are trying to learn and are<br>
getting invested in the project, not just trying to pad stats. Those are<br>
the people we look to mentor into bigger roles in the project team, be<br>
that working on subteams or eventually looking at for the core reviewer<br>
team.<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Matt Riedemann<br>
<br>
<br>
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