<div dir="ltr"><div>As we are going to deprecate logs on UI I'm going to mark following bugs as "won't fix". Any objections?</div><div>High priority bug:</div><div><a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1553170">https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1553170</a></div><div>Medium priority:</div><div><a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1554546">https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1554546</a><br></div><div><a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1539508">https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1539508</a></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Roman Prykhodchenko <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me" target="_blank">me@romcheg.me</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Folks, I’ve registered a blueprint [1] and created an etherpad document [2] where we can co-work on the spec before posting it to a formal review. Let’s cooperate to summarize what we need to do.<br>
<br>
<br>
1. <a href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/remove-logs-from-nailgun" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/remove-logs-from-nailgun</a><br>
2. <a href="https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/remove-logs-from_Nailgun" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/remove-logs-from_Nailgun</a><br>
<br>
- romcheg<br>
<br>
> 14 бер. 2016 р. о 09:53 Bogdan Dobrelya <<a href="mailto:bdobrelia@mirantis.com">bdobrelia@mirantis.com</a>> написав(ла):<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">><br>
> On 03/14/2016 09:38 AM, Anastasia Urlapova wrote:<br>
>> +1 to Vitaliy, it would be nice find somewhere a details for migration.<br>
>> And one more concern I should highlight - for some users logless UI may<br>
>> be challenging thing.<br>
>> The logs removing shouldn't affect the UX.<br>
><br>
> Logs will still live at the master node's /var/log/remote<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Nastya.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 3:08 AM, Andrew Woodward <<a href="mailto:xarses@gmail.com">xarses@gmail.com</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:xarses@gmail.com">xarses@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I think we can address it by retaining deployment logs in<br>
>> nailgun/ui, this also removes the chicken and egg problem. after LMA<br>
>> is deployed it can be allowed to re-own 'logs' button on UI once<br>
>> it's deployed, including redirecting fuel logs there.<br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:07 PM Mike Scherbakov<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:mscherbakov@mirantis.com">mscherbakov@mirantis.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mscherbakov@mirantis.com">mscherbakov@mirantis.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> We can sort out details later. In a worst case, the warning will<br>
>> be there in Newton too, and feature will go away only in O*<br>
>> release. So let's proceed with the bug..<br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 1:02 PM Vitaly Kramskikh<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:vkramskikh@mirantis.com">vkramskikh@mirantis.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:vkramskikh@mirantis.com">vkramskikh@mirantis.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> We can add the warning, but I think before we do this we<br>
>> should have clear migration plan. According to this thread,<br>
>> some parts are still not clear.<br>
>><br>
>> 2016-03-11 22:00 GMT+03:00 Mike Scherbakov<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:mscherbakov@mirantis.com">mscherbakov@mirantis.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mscherbakov@mirantis.com">mscherbakov@mirantis.com</a>>>:<br>
>><br>
>> Deprecation warning for Fuel<br>
>> Mitaka: <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1556244" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1556244</a>.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 8:59 AM Roman Prykhodchenko<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me">me@romcheg.me</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me">me@romcheg.me</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Since there are a lot of supporters for this idea,<br>
>> what do you folks think about creating a BP spec<br>
>> where we can describe what we should do in order to<br>
>> remove logs from UI and Nailgun? I also propose to<br>
>> file a bug about adding a deprecation warning to<br>
>> Mitaka release of Fuel.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> 11 бер. 2016 р. о 16:55 Bogdan Dobrelya<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:bdobrelia@mirantis.com">bdobrelia@mirantis.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:bdobrelia@mirantis.com">bdobrelia@mirantis.com</a>>> написав(ла):<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 03/11/2016 04:46 PM, Mike Scherbakov wrote:<br>
>>>> +1 to remove logs from Fuel UI in Fuel Newton.<br>
>>>> In Fuel Mitaka we'd need to put a deprecation<br>
>>>> warning somewhere.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I agree, there is not much sense having non<br>
>>> flexible (no content<br>
>>> filters) logs view in UI. LMA plugins shall cover<br>
>>> this area as well.<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 04:57 Patrick Petit<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a>><br>
>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 11 March 2016 at 12:51:40, Igor Kalnitsky<br>
>>>> (<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a><br>
>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a>>)<br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Patrick,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Sorry, but I meant another question. I<br>
>>>>> thought that LMA plugin should<br>
>>>>> be installed in some environment before we<br>
>>>>> can start use it. Is<br>
>>>>> this a<br>
>>>>> case? If so, it means we can't use for master<br>
>>>>> node until some<br>
>>>>> environment is deployed.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Right. This is the chicken and egg problem I<br>
>>>> mentioned earlier...<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> But this is not a “problem” specific to Fuel.<br>
>>>> My take on this is is<br>
>>>> that ops management tooling (logging,<br>
>>>> monitoring) should be<br>
>>>> installed off-band before any OpenStack<br>
>>>> deployment. In fact, in<br>
>>>> real-world usage, we frequently get asks to<br>
>>>> have the monitoring and<br>
>>>> logging services of StackLight installed<br>
>>>> permanently for<br>
>>>> multi-enviroments. And so, one approach would<br>
>>>> be to make Stacklight<br>
>>>> backend services the first bits of software<br>
>>>> installed by Fuel (if<br>
>>>> not already there), then reconfigure Fuel to<br>
>>>> hook into those<br>
>>>> services and only then, enter into the regular<br>
>>>> OpenStack<br>
>>>> provisioning mode.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Patrick Petit<br>
>>>>> <<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a><br>
>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a>>><br>
>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On 11 March 2016 at 11:34:32, Igor Kalnitsky<br>
>>>>>> (<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a><br>
>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a>>)<br>
>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Hey Roman,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Thank you for bringing this up. +1 from my<br>
>>>>>> side, especially taking<br>
>>>>>> into account the patch where we tried to solve<br>
>>>>>> logrotated logs problem<br>
>>>>>> [1]. It's complex and unsupportable, as well as<br>
>>>>>> already existed<br>
>>>>>> logview code in Nailgun.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Patrick, Simon,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Does LMA plugin support logs from master node?<br>
>>>>>> Or it's designed to<br>
>>>>>> watch environment's logs?<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> No it’s not designed specifically for<br>
>>>>>> environment logs. Can be adapted to<br>
>>>>>> any log format.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Would just need to write a parser like you<br>
>>>>>> would with logstach when logs are<br>
>>>>>> not standard.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Patrick<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>> Igor<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> [1]: <a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243240/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243240/</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Patrick Petit<br>
>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a><br>
>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com">ppetit@mirantis.com</a>>><br>
>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> Fuelers,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> As Simon said, we already have a log<br>
>>>>>>> centralisation solution for MOS<br>
>>>>>>> delivered as a Fuel plugins known as<br>
>>>>>>> StackLight / LMA toolset. And so<br>
>>>>>>> objectively, there is no need to have log<br>
>>>>>>> management in Nailgun anymore.<br>
>>>>>>> To<br>
>>>>>>> go one step further we suggested several times<br>
>>>>>>> to have a StackLight agent<br>
>>>>>>> installed on the Fuel master node to also<br>
>>>>>>> collect and centralise those<br>
>>>>>>> logs.<br>
>>>>>>> There is a little bit of a chicken and egg<br>
>>>>>>> problem to resolve but I think<br>
>>>>>>> it<br>
>>>>>>> is worth a try to have that nailed down in the<br>
>>>>>>> roadmap for Fuel 10.<br>
>>>>>>> Cheers<br>
>>>>>>> - Patrick<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On 11 March 2016 at 10:07:28, Simon Pasquier<br>
>>>>>>> (<a href="mailto:spasquier@mirantis.com">spasquier@mirantis.com</a><br>
>>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:spasquier@mirantis.com">spasquier@mirantis.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:spasquier@mirantis.com">spasquier@mirantis.com</a>>)<br>
>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Hello Roman,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Roman<br>
>>>>>>> Prykhodchenko <<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me">me@romcheg.me</a><br>
>>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me">me@romcheg.me</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me">me@romcheg.me</a>>><br>
>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Fuelers,<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> I remember we’ve discussing this topic in our<br>
>>>>>>>> couloirs before but I’d<br>
>>>>>>>> like<br>
>>>>>>>> to bring that discussion to a more official<br>
>>>>>>>> format.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Let me state a few reasons to do this:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> - Log management code in Nailgun is<br>
>>>>>>>> overcomplicated<br>
>>>>>>>> - Working with logs on big scale deployments<br>
>>>>>>>> is barely possible given the<br>
>>>>>>>> current representation<br>
>>>>>>>> - Due to overcomplexity and ineffectiveness<br>
>>>>>>>> of the code we always get<br>
>>>>>>>> recurring bugs like [1]. That eats tons of<br>
>>>>>>>> time to resolve.<br>
>>>>>>>> - There are much better specialized tools,<br>
>>>>>>>> say Logstash [2], that can<br>
>>>>>>>> deal<br>
>>>>>>>> with logs much more effectively.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> There may be more reasons bus I think even<br>
>>>>>>>> the already mentioned ones are<br>
>>>>>>>> enough to think about the following proposal:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> - Remove Logs tab from Fuel Web UI<br>
>>>>>>>> - Remove logs support from Nailgun<br>
>>>>>>>> - Create mechanism that allows to configure<br>
>>>>>>>> different log management<br>
>>>>>>>> software, say Logstash, Loggly, etc<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> - Choose a default software to install and<br>
>>>>>>>> provide a plugin for it from<br>
>>>>>>>> the box<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> This is what the LMA/StackLight plugins [1][2]<br>
>>>>>>> are meant for. No need to<br>
>>>>>>> develop anything new.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> And I'm +1 with the removal of log management<br>
>>>>>>> from Fuel. As you said, it<br>
>>>>>>> can't scale...<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> [1]<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="http://fuel-plugin-lma-collector.readthedocs.org/en/latest/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://fuel-plugin-lma-collector.readthedocs.org/en/latest/</a><br>
>>>>>>> [2]<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="http://fuel-plugin-elasticsearch-kibana.readthedocs.org/en/latest/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://fuel-plugin-elasticsearch-kibana.readthedocs.org/en/latest/</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> References<br>
>>>>>>>> 1. <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1553170" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1553170</a><br>
>>>>>>>> 2. <a href="https://www.elastic.co/products/logstash" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.elastic.co/products/logstash</a><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> - romcheg<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for<br>
>>>>>>>> usage questions)<br>
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe:<br>
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>>>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org</a>>?subject:unsubscribe<br>
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>>>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
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>>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
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>>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________<br>
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>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________<br>
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>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Mike Scherbakov<br>
>>>> #mihgen<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________<br>
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>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Best regards,<br>
>>> Bogdan Dobrelya,<br>
>>> Irc #bogdando<br>
>>><br>
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>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Mike Scherbakov<br>
>> #mihgen<br>
>><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Vitaly Kramskikh,<br>
>> Fuel UI Tech Lead,<br>
>> Mirantis, Inc.<br>
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>> Mike Scherbakov<br>
>> #mihgen<br>
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