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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks for your advice. I respect your point of view and we will definitely encourage our users to try Barbican if they see fits. However, for the sake of Magnum,
I think we have to decouple from Barbican at current stage. The coupling of Magnum and Barbican will increase the size of the system by two (1 project -> 2 project), which will significant increase the overall complexities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For developers, it incurs significant overheads on development, quality assurance, and maintenance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For operators, it doubles the amount of efforts of deploying and monitoring the system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For users, a large system is likely to be unstable and fragile which affects the user experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In my point of view, I would like to minimize the system we are going to ship, so that we can reduce the overheads of maintenance and provides a stable system
to our users.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I noticed that there are several suggestions to “force” our users to install Barbican, which I would respectfully disagree. Magnum is a young project and we
are struggling to increase the adoption rate. I think we need to be nice to our users, otherwise, they will choose our competitors (there are container service everywhere). Please understand that we are not a mature project, like Nova, who has thousands of
users. We really don’t have the power to force our users to do what they don’t like to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I also recognized there are several disagreements from the Barbican team. Per my understanding, most of the complaints are about the re-invention of Barbican
equivalent functionality in Magnum. To address that, I am going to propose an idea to achieve the goal without duplicating Barbican. In particular, I suggest to add support for additional authentication system (Keystone in particular) for our Kubernetes bay
(potentially for swarm/mesos). As a result, users can specify how to secure their bay’s API endpoint:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">TLS: This option requires Barbican to be installed for storing the TLS certificates.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Keystone: This option doesn’t require Barbican. Users will use their OpenStack credentials to log into Kubernetes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I am going to send another ML to describe the details. You are welcome to provide your inputs. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hongbin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Tim Bell [mailto:Tim.Bell@cern.ch]
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<b>Sent:</b> March-19-16 5:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] High Availability<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hongbin Lu <<a href="mailto:hongbin.lu@huawei.com">hongbin.lu@huawei.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday 19 March 2016 at 04:52<br>
<b>To: </b>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] High Availability<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If you disagree, I would request you to justify why this approach works for Heat but not for Magnum. Also, I also wonder if Heat has a plan to set a hard dependency
on Barbican for just protecting the hidden parameters.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">There is a risk that we use decisions made by other projects to justify how Magnum is implemented. Heat was created 3 years ago according to <a href="https://www.openstack.org/software/project-navigator/">https://www.openstack.org/software/project-navigator/</a> and
Barbican only 2 years ago, thus Barbican may not have been an option (or a high risk one).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Barbican has demonstrated that the project has corporate diversity and good stability (<a href="https://www.openstack.org/software/releases/liberty/components/barbican">https://www.openstack.org/software/releases/liberty/components/barbican</a>).
There are some areas that could be improved (packaging and puppet modules are often needing some more investment).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I think it is worth a go to try it out and have concrete areas to improve if there are problems.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If you don’t like code duplication between Magnum and Heat, I would suggest to move the implementation to a oslo library to make it DRY. Thoughts?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[1]
<a href="https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/juno/encrypt-hidden-parameters.html">
https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/juno/encrypt-hidden-parameters.html</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hongbin</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> David Stanek [<a href="mailto:dstanek@dstanek.com">mailto:dstanek@dstanek.com</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> March-18-16 4:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] High Availability</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:03 PM Douglas Mendizábal <<a href="mailto:douglas.mendizabal@rackspace.com">douglas.mendizabal@rackspace.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">[snip]<br>
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> Regarding the Keystone solution, I'd like to hear the Keystone team's feadback on that. It definitely sounds to me like you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I believe that using Keystone for this is a mistake. As mentioned in the blueprint, Keystone is not encrypting the data so magnum would be on the hook to do it. So that means that if security is a requirement you'd
have to duplicate more than just code. magnum would start having a larger security burden. Since we have a system designed to securely store data I think that's the best place for data that needs to be secure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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