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Team,
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<div class="">Time to close down this thread and start a new one. I’m going to change the subject line, and start with a summary. Please restrict further discussion on this thread to the subject of High Availability.
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<div class="">Thanks,</div>
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<div class="">Adrian<br class="">
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<div class="">On Mar 22, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Daneyon Hansen (danehans) <<a href="mailto:danehans@cisco.com" class="">danehans@cisco.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Hongbin Lu <<a href="mailto:hongbin.lu@huawei.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">hongbin.lu@huawei.com</a>><br class="">
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Reply-To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="">
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Monday, March 21, 2016 at 8:19 PM<br class="">
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="">
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] High Availability<br class="">
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Tim,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Thanks for your advice. I respect your point of view and we will definitely encourage our users to try Barbican if they see fits. However, for the sake of Magnum,
I think we have to decouple from Barbican at current stage. The coupling of Magnum and Barbican will increase the size of the system by two (1 project -> 2 project), which will significant increase the overall complexities.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">For
developers, it incurs significant overheads on development, quality assurance, and maintenance.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">For
operators, it doubles the amount of efforts of deploying and monitoring the system.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">For
users, a large system is likely to be unstable and fragile which affects the user experience.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">In my point of view, I would like to minimize the system we are going to ship, so that we can reduce the overheads of maintenance and provides a stable system
to our users.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I noticed that there are several suggestions to “force” our users to install Barbican, which I would respectfully disagree. Magnum is a young project and we are
struggling to increase the adoption rate. I think we need to be nice to our users, otherwise, they will choose our competitors (there are container service everywhere). Please understand that we are not a mature project, like Nova, who has thousands of users.
We really don’t have the power to force our users to do what they don’t like to do.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I also recognized there are several disagreements from the Barbican team. Per my understanding, most of the complaints are about the re-invention of Barbican
equivalent functionality in Magnum. To address that, I am going to propose an idea to achieve the goal without duplicating Barbican. In particular, I suggest to add support for additional authentication system (Keystone in particular) for our Kubernetes bay
(potentially for swarm/mesos). As a result, users can specify how to secure their bay’s API endpoint:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">TLS:
This option requires Barbican to be installed for storing the TLS certificates.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Keystone:
This option doesn’t require Barbican. Users will use their OpenStack credentials to log into Kubernetes.</span></div>
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I believe this is a sensible option that addresses the original problem statement in [1]:</div>
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"<span style="color: rgb(50, 51, 51); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(50, 51, 51); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Magnum currently controls Kubernetes API services using<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(50, 51, 51); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><font color="#ff0000" class="">unauthenticated
HTTP</font></span><span style="color: rgb(50, 51, 51); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(50, 51, 51); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">. If an attacker knows the api_address of a Kubernetes Bay, (s)he can control the cluster without any access control."</span></div>
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The [1] problem statement is authenticating the bay API endpoint, not encrypting it. With the option you propose, we can leave the existing tls-disabled attribute alone and continue supporting encryption. Using Keystone to authenticate the Kubernetes API already
exists outside of Magnum in Hypernetes [2]. We will need to investigate support for the other coe types.</div>
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[1] <a href="https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/specs/tls-support-magnum.rst" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/specs/tls-support-magnum.rst</a></div>
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[2] <a href="http://thenewstack.io/hypernetes-brings-multi-tenancy-microservices/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://thenewstack.io/hypernetes-brings-multi-tenancy-microservices/</a></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I am going to send another ML to describe the details. You are welcome to provide your inputs. Thanks.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Best regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hongbin<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tim Bell [<a href="mailto:Tim.Bell@cern.ch" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:Tim.Bell@cern.ch</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>March-19-16 5:55 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] High Availability<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hongbin Lu <<a href="mailto:hongbin.lu@huawei.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">hongbin.lu@huawei.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Reply-To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Saturday 19 March 2016 at 04:52<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] High Availability<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">If you disagree, I would request you to justify why this approach works for Heat but not for Magnum. Also, I also wonder if Heat has a plan to set a hard dependency
on Barbican for just protecting the hidden parameters.</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">There is a risk that we use decisions made by other projects to justify how Magnum is implemented. Heat was created 3 years ago according to <a href="https://www.openstack.org/software/project-navigator/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.openstack.org/software/project-navigator/</a> and
Barbican only 2 years ago, thus Barbican may not have been an option (or a high risk one).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Barbican has demonstrated that the project has corporate diversity and good stability (<a href="https://www.openstack.org/software/releases/liberty/components/barbican" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.openstack.org/software/releases/liberty/components/barbican</a>).
There are some areas that could be improved (packaging and puppet modules are often needing some more investment).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I think it is worth a go to try it out and have concrete areas to improve if there are problems.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Tim<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">If you don’t like code duplication between Magnum and Heat, I would suggest to move the implementation to a oslo library to make it DRY. Thoughts?</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">[1]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/juno/encrypt-hidden-parameters.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/heat-specs/specs/juno/encrypt-hidden-parameters.html</a></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Best regards,</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hongbin</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>David Stanek
[<a href="mailto:dstanek@dstanek.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:dstanek@dstanek.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>March-18-16 4:12 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] High Availability</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="" class="">On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:03 PM Douglas Mendizábal <<a href="mailto:douglas.mendizabal@rackspace.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">douglas.mendizabal@rackspace.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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> Regarding the Keystone solution, I'd like to hear the Keystone team's feadback on that. It definitely sounds to me like you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole.<br class="">
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<span style="" class="">I believe that using Keystone for this is a mistake. As mentioned in the blueprint, Keystone is not encrypting the data so magnum would be on the hook to do it. So that means that if security is a requirement you'd have to duplicate
more than just code. magnum would start having a larger security burden. Since we have a system designed to securely store data I think that's the best place for data that needs to be secure.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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