<div dir="ltr"><div>+1 to Vitaliy, it would be nice find somewhere a details for migration.<br>And one more concern I should highlight - for some users logless UI may be challenging thing. <br>The logs removing shouldn't affect the UX.<br><br><br></div><div>Nastya.<br></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 3:08 AM, Andrew Woodward <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:xarses@gmail.com" target="_blank">xarses@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I think we can address it by retaining deployment logs in nailgun/ui, this also removes the chicken and egg problem. after LMA is deployed it can be allowed to re-own 'logs' button on UI once it's deployed, including redirecting fuel logs there.<br></div><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:07 PM Mike Scherbakov <<a href="mailto:mscherbakov@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mscherbakov@mirantis.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">We can sort out details later. In a worst case, the warning will be there in Newton too, and feature will go away only in O* release. So let's proceed with the bug.. </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 1:02 PM Vitaly Kramskikh <<a href="mailto:vkramskikh@mirantis.com" target="_blank">vkramskikh@mirantis.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">We can add the warning, but I think before we do this we should have clear migration plan. According to this thread, some parts are still not clear.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-03-11 22:00 GMT+03:00 Mike Scherbakov <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mscherbakov@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mscherbakov@mirantis.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Deprecation warning for Fuel Mitaka: <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1556244" target="_blank">https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1556244</a>.<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 8:59 AM Roman Prykhodchenko <<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me" target="_blank">me@romcheg.me</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Since there are a lot of supporters for this idea, what do you folks think about creating a BP spec where we can describe what we should do in order to remove logs from UI and Nailgun? I also propose to file a bug about adding a deprecation warning to Mitaka release of Fuel.<div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>11 бер. 2016 р. о 16:55 Bogdan Dobrelya <<a href="mailto:bdobrelia@mirantis.com" target="_blank">bdobrelia@mirantis.com</a>> написав(ла):</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><br><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">On 03/11/2016 04:46 PM, Mike Scherbakov wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">+1 to remove logs from Fuel UI in Fuel Newton.<br>In Fuel Mitaka we'd need to put a deprecation warning somewhere.<br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I agree, there is not much sense having non flexible (no content</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">filters) logs view in UI. LMA plugins shall cover this area as well.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br><br>On Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 04:57 Patrick Petit <<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com" target="_blank">ppetit@mirantis.com</a><br><<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com</a>>> wrote:<br><br><br> On 11 March 2016 at 12:51:40, Igor Kalnitsky<br> (<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com" target="_blank">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a><span> </span><<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a>>) wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite"> Patrick,<span> </span><br><br> Sorry, but I meant another question. I thought that LMA plugin should<span> </span><br> be installed in some environment before we can start use it. Is<br> this a<span> </span><br> case? If so, it means we can't use for master node until some<span> </span><br> environment is deployed.<span> </span><br></blockquote><br> Right. This is the chicken and egg problem I mentioned earlier...<br><br> But this is not a “problem” specific to Fuel. My take on this is is<br> that ops management tooling (logging, monitoring) should be<br> installed off-band before any OpenStack deployment. In fact, in<br> real-world usage, we frequently get asks to have the monitoring and<br> logging services of StackLight installed permanently for<br> multi-enviroments. And so, one approach would be to make Stacklight<br> backend services the first bits of software installed by Fuel (if<br> not already there), then reconfigure Fuel to hook into those<br> services and only then, enter into the regular OpenStack<br> provisioning mode.<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br><br> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Patrick Petit<br> <<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com" target="_blank">ppetit@mirantis.com</a><span> </span><<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com</a>>> wrote:<span> </span><br><blockquote type="cite"><br>On 11 March 2016 at 11:34:32, Igor Kalnitsky (<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com" target="_blank">ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a><span> </span><<a href="mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mailto:ikalnitsky@mirantis.com</a>>)<span> </span><br>wrote:<span> </span><br><br>Hey Roman,<span> </span><br><br>Thank you for bringing this up. +1 from my side, especially taking<span> </span><br>into account the patch where we tried to solve logrotated logs problem<span> </span><br>[1]. It's complex and unsupportable, as well as already existed<span> </span><br>logview code in Nailgun.<span> </span><br><br>Patrick, Simon,<span> </span><br><br>Does LMA plugin support logs from master node? Or it's designed to<span> </span><br>watch environment's logs?<span> </span><br><br>No it’s not designed specifically for environment logs. Can be adapted to<span> </span><br>any log format.<span> </span><br><br>Would just need to write a parser like you would with logstach when logs are<span> </span><br>not standard.<span> </span><br><br>Patrick<span> </span><br><br><br><br>Thanks,<span> </span><br>Igor<span> </span><br><br><br>[1]:<span> </span><a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243240/" target="_blank">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243240/</a><span> </span><br><br>On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Patrick Petit <<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com" target="_blank">ppetit@mirantis.com</a><span> </span><<a href="mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mailto:ppetit@mirantis.com</a>>> wrote:<span> </span><br><blockquote type="cite">Fuelers,<span> </span><br><br>As Simon said, we already have a log centralisation solution for MOS<span> </span><br>delivered as a Fuel plugins known as StackLight / LMA toolset. And so<span> </span><br>objectively, there is no need to have log management in Nailgun anymore.<span> </span><br>To<span> </span><br>go one step further we suggested several times to have a StackLight agent<span> </span><br>installed on the Fuel master node to also collect and centralise those<span> </span><br>logs.<span> </span><br>There is a little bit of a chicken and egg problem to resolve but I think<span> </span><br>it<span> </span><br>is worth a try to have that nailed down in the roadmap for Fuel 10.<span> </span><br>Cheers<span> </span><br>- Patrick<span> </span><br><br><br>On 11 March 2016 at 10:07:28, Simon Pasquier (<a href="mailto:spasquier@mirantis.com" target="_blank">spasquier@mirantis.com</a><span> </span><<a href="mailto:spasquier@mirantis.com" target="_blank">mailto:spasquier@mirantis.com</a>>)<span> </span><br>wrote:<span> </span><br><br>Hello Roman,<span> </span><br><br>On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Roman Prykhodchenko <<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me" target="_blank">me@romcheg.me</a><span> </span><<a href="mailto:me@romcheg.me" target="_blank">mailto:me@romcheg.me</a>>><span> </span><br>wrote:<span> </span><br><blockquote type="cite"><br>Fuelers,<span> </span><br><br>I remember we’ve discussing this topic in our couloirs before but I’d<span> </span><br>like<span> </span><br>to bring that discussion to a more official format.<span> </span><br><br>Let me state a few reasons to do this:<span> </span><br><br>- Log management code in Nailgun is overcomplicated<span> </span><br>- Working with logs on big scale deployments is barely possible given the<span> </span><br>current representation<span> </span><br>- Due to overcomplexity and ineffectiveness of the code we always get<span> </span><br>recurring bugs like [1]. That eats tons of time to resolve.<span> </span><br>- There are much better specialized tools, say Logstash [2], that can<span> </span><br>deal<span> </span><br>with logs much more effectively.<span> </span><br><br><br>There may be more reasons bus I think even the already mentioned ones are<span> </span><br>enough to think about the following proposal:<span> </span><br><br>- Remove Logs tab from Fuel Web UI<span> </span><br>- Remove logs support from Nailgun<span> </span><br>- Create mechanism that allows to configure different log management<span> </span><br>software, say Logstash, Loggly, etc<span> </span><br><br>- Choose a default software to install and provide a plugin for it from<span> </span><br>the box<span> </span><br></blockquote><br><br>This is what the LMA/StackLight plugins [1][2] are meant for. No need to<span> </span><br>develop anything new.<span> </span><br><br>And I'm +1 with the removal of log management from Fuel. As you said, it<span> </span><br>can't scale...<span> </span><br><br>[1] <a href="http://fuel-plugin-lma-collector.readthedocs.org/en/latest/" target="_blank">http://fuel-plugin-lma-collector.readthedocs.org/en/latest/</a><span> </span><br>[2] <a href="http://fuel-plugin-elasticsearch-kibana.readthedocs.org/en/latest/" target="_blank">http://fuel-plugin-elasticsearch-kibana.readthedocs.org/en/latest/</a><span> </span><br><br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br><br><br>References<span> </span><br>1. <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1553170" target="_blank">https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1553170</a><span> </span><br>2. <a href="https://www.elastic.co/products/logstash" target="_blank">https://www.elastic.co/products/logstash</a><span> </span><br><br><br>- romcheg<span> </span><br><br><br>__________________________________________________________________________<span> </span><br>OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<span> </span><br>Unsubscribe:<span> 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style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">--<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Best regards,</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span 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</blockquote></div></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888"><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">Mike Scherbakov<br>#mihgen</div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Vitaly Kramskikh,<br>Fuel UI Tech Lead,<br>Mirantis, Inc.</div></div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr">--</p><p dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px">Andrew Woodward</span></p><p dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px">Mirantis</span></p><p dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px">Fuel Community Ambassador</span></p><p dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:13.1999998092651px">Ceph Community</span></p>
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