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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t think there is any consensus on supporting single distro. There are multiple disagreements on this thread, including several senior team members and
a project co-founder. This topic should be re-discussed (possibly at the design summit).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hongbin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Corey O'Brien [mailto:coreypobrien@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> March-04-16 11:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum] Discussion of supporting single/multiple OS distro<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don't think anyone is saying that code should somehow block support for multiple distros. The discussion at midcycle was about what the we should gate on and ensure feature parity for as a team. Ideally, we'd like to get support for every
distro, I think, but no one wants to have that many gates. Instead, the consensus at the midcycle was to have 1 reference distro for each COE, gate on those and develop features there, and then have any other distros be maintained by those in the community
that are passionate about them.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The issue also isn't about how difficult or not it is. The problem we want to avoid is spending precious time guaranteeing that new features and bug fixes make it through multiple distros. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Corey<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 11:18 AM Steven Dake (stdake) <<a href="mailto:stdake@cisco.com">stdake@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">My position on this is simple.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Operators are used to using specific distros because that is what they used in the 90s,and the 00s, and the 10s. Yes, 25 years of using a distro, and you learn
it inside and out. This means you don't want to relearn a new distro, especially if your an RPM user going to DEB or a DEB user going to RPM. These are non-starter options for operators, and as a result, mean that distro choice is a must. Since CoreOS is
a new OS in the marketplace, it may make sense to consider placing it in "third" position in terms of support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Besides that problem, various distribution companies will only support distros running in Vms if it matches the host kernel, which makes total sense to me. This
means on an Ubuntu host if I want support I need to run Ubuntu vms, on a RHEL host I want to run RHEL vms, because, hey, I want my issues supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">For these reasons and these reasons alone, there is no good rationale to remove multi-distro support from Magnum. All I've heard in this thread so far is "its
too hard". Its not too hard, especially with Heat conditionals making their way into Mitaka.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">-steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hongbin Lu <<a href="mailto:hongbin.lu@huawei.com" target="_blank">hongbin.lu@huawei.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 29, 2016 at 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[openstack-dev] [magnum] Discussion of supporting single/multiple OS distro<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi team,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">This is a continued discussion from a review [1]. Corey O'Brien suggested to have Magnum support a single OS distro (Atomic). I disagreed. I think we
should bring the discussion to here to get broader set of inputs. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Corey O'Brien</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">From the midcycle, we decided we weren't going to continue to support 2 different versions of the k8s template. Instead, we were going to maintain the
Fedora Atomic version of k8s and remove the coreos templates from the tree. I don't think we should continue to develop features for coreos k8s if that is true.</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">In addition, I don't think we should break the coreos template by adding the trust token as a heat parameter.</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black"> </span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Hongbin Lu</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">I was on the midcycle and I don't remember any decision to remove CoreOS support. Why you want to remove CoreOS templates from the tree. Please note
that this is a very big decision and please discuss it with the team thoughtfully and make sure everyone agree.</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black"> </span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Corey O'Brien</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Removing the coreos templates was a part of the COE drivers decision. Since each COE driver will only support 1 distro+version+coe we discussed which
ones to support in tree. The decision was that instead of trying to support every distro and every version for every coe, the magnum tree would only have support for 1 version of 1 distro for each of the 3 COEs (swarm/docker/mesos). Since we already are going
to support Atomic for swarm, removing coreos and keeping Atomic for kubernetes was the favored choice.</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black"> </span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Hongbin Lu</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Strongly disagree. It is a huge risk to support a single distro. The selected distro could die in the future. Who knows. Why make Magnum take this huge
risk? Again, the decision of supporting single distro is a very big decision. Please bring it up to the team and have it discuss thoughtfully before making any decision. Also, Magnum doesn't have to support every distro and every version for every coe, but
should support *more than one* popular distro for some COEs (especially for the popular COEs).</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black"> </span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Corey O'Brien</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">The discussion at the midcycle started from the idea of adding support for RHEL and CentOS. We all discussed and decided that we wouldn't try to support
everything in tree. Magnum would provide support in-tree for 1 per COE and the COE driver interface would allow others to add support for their preferred distro out of tree.</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black"> </span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">Hongbin Lu</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black">I agreed the part that "we wouldn't try to support everything in tree". That doesn't imply the decision to support single distro. Again, support single
distro is a huge risk. Why make Magnum take this huge risk?</span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">[1]
<a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277284/" target="_blank">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277284/</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hongbin</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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