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<div>We are looking at deploying magnum as an answer for how do we do containers company wide at Godaddy. I am going to agree with both you and josh.</div>
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<div>I agree that managing one large system is going to be a pain and pas experience tells me this wont be practical/scale, however from experience I also know exactly the pain Josh is talking about.</div>
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<div>We currently have ~4k projects in our internal openstack cloud, about 1/4 of the projects are currently doing some form of containers on their own, with more joining every day. If all of these projects were to convert of to the current magnum configuration
we would suddenly be attempting to support/configure ~1k magnum clusters. Considering that everyone will want it HA, we are looking at a minimum of 2 kube nodes per cluster + lbaas vips + floating ips. From a capacity standpoint this is an excessive amount
of duplicated infrastructure to spinup in projects where people maybe running 10–20 containers per project. From an operator support perspective this is a special level of hell that I do not want to get into. Even if I am off by 75%, 250 still sucks.</div>
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<div>From my point of view an ideal use case for companies like ours (yahoo/godaddy) would be able to support hierarchical projects in magnum. That way we could create a project for each department, and then the subteams of those departments can have their
own projects. We create a a bay per department. Sub-projects if they want to can support creation of their own bays (but support of the kube cluster would then fall to that team). When a sub-project spins up a pod on a bay, minions get created inside that
teams sub projects and the containers in that pod run on the capacity that was spun up under that project, the minions for each pod would be a in a scaling group and as such grow/shrink as dictated by load.</div>
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<div>The above would make it so where we support a minimal, yet imho reasonable, number of kube clusters, give people who can't/don’t want to fall inline with the provided resource a way to make their own and still offer a "good enough for a single company"
level of multi-tenancy.</div>
<pre style="margin-top: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 12.0012px; font-family: 'andale mono', 'lucida console', monospace; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap; line-height: 18.0018px; color: rgb(83, 83, 83); widows: 1; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">>Joshua,
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<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>If you share resources, you give up multi-tenancy. No COE system has the
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>concept of multi-tenancy (kubernetes has some basic implementation but it
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>is totally insecure). Not only does multi-tenancy have to “look like” it
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>offers multiple tenants isolation, but it actually has to deliver the
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>goods.<br><pre style="margin-top: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 12.0012px; font-family: 'andale mono', 'lucida console', monospace; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap; line-height: 18.0018px;">></pre><span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>I understand that at first glance a company like Yahoo may not want
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>separate bays for their various applications because of the perceived
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>administrative overhead. I would then challenge Yahoo to go deploy a COE
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>like kubernetes (which has no multi-tenancy or a very basic implementation
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>of such) and get it to work with hundreds of different competing
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>applications. I would speculate the administrative overhead of getting
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>all that to work would be greater then the administrative overhead of
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>simply doing a bay create for the various tenants.
<pre style="margin-top: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 12.0012px; font-family: 'andale mono', 'lucida console', monospace; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap; line-height: 18.0018px;">></pre><span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>Placing tenancy inside a COE seems interesting, but no COE does that
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>today. Maybe in the future they will. Magnum was designed to present an
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>integration point between COEs and OpenStack today, not five years down
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>the road. Its not as if we took shortcuts to get to where we are.
<pre style="margin-top: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 12.0012px; font-family: 'andale mono', 'lucida console', monospace; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap; line-height: 18.0018px;">></pre><span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>I will grant you that density is lower with the current design of Magnum
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>vs a full on integration with OpenStack within the COE itself. However,
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>that model which is what I believe you proposed is a huge design change to
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>each COE which would overly complicate the COE at the gain of increased
<span style="font-size: 12.0012px; line-height: 18.0018px;">></span>density. I personally don’t feel that pain is worth the gain.</pre>
<pre style="margin-top: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 12.0012px; font-family: 'andale mono', 'lucida console', monospace; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap; line-height: 18.0018px; color: rgb(83, 83, 83); widows: 1; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></pre>
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<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">___________________________________________________________________</font></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Kris Lindgren</font></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Senior Linux Systems Engineer</font></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">GoDaddy</font></font></div>
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