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Thanks Jay/Kennan/Adrian for chiming in!<br>
<br>
From this, I conclude that we have enough consensus to have 'magnum
service-list' and 'magnum coe-service-list' segregated. I will
capture extract of this discussion at the blueprint and start
implementation of the same.<br>
<br>
Kennan,<br>
I would request you to submit a different bp/bug to address the
staleness of the state of pod/rc.<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Regards,
SURO
irc//freenode: suro-patz
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/3/15 5:33 PM, Kai Qiang Wu wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:OF3945814A.852DF4A9-ON48257E97.00021353-48257E97.00031925@cn.ibm.com"
type="cite">
<p><font face="sans-serif" size="2">Hi Suro and Jay,</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I checked discussion below, and
I do believe we also need service-list(for just magnum-api and
magnum-conductor), but not so emergent requirement.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I also think service-list
should not bind to k8s or swarm etc. (can use coe-service
etc.)</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">But I have more for below:</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">1) For k8s or swarm or mesos,
I think magnum can expose through the coe-service-list.</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">But if right now, we fetched
status from DB for pods/rcs status, It seems not proper to do
that, as DB has old data. We need to fetch that through
k8s/swarm API endpoints.</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">2) It can also expose that
through k8s/swarm/mesos client tools. If users like that.</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Thanks</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Best Wishes,</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Kai Qiang Wu (吴开强 Kennan）<br>
IBM China System and Technology Lab, Beijing<br>
<br>
E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wkqwu@cn.ibm.com">wkqwu@cn.ibm.com</a><br>
Tel: 86-10-82451647<br>
Address: Building 28(Ring Building), ZhongGuanCun Software
Park, <br>
No.8 Dong Bei Wang West Road, Haidian District Beijing
P.R.China 100193</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Follow your heart. You are
miracle! </font><br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part1.09030600.01060005@gmail.com" alt="Inactive
hide details for Jay Lau ---08/04/2015 05:51:33 AM---Hi Suro,
Yes, I did not see a strong reason for adding "service-l"
height="16" border="0" width="16"><font face="sans-serif"
color="#424282" size="2">Jay Lau ---08/04/2015 05:51:33
AM---Hi Suro, Yes, I did not see a strong reason for adding
"service-list" to show all of</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" color="#5F5F5F" size="1">From: </font><font
face="sans-serif" size="1">Jay Lau
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jay.lau.513@gmail.com"><jay.lau.513@gmail.com></a></font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" color="#5F5F5F" size="1">To: </font><font
face="sans-serif" size="1">"OpenStack Development Mailing List
(not for usage questions)"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org"><openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org></a></font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" color="#5F5F5F" size="1">Date: </font><font
face="sans-serif" size="1">08/04/2015 05:51 AM</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" color="#5F5F5F" size="1">Subject: </font><font
face="sans-serif" size="1">Re: [openstack-dev]
[magnum][blueprint] magnum-service-list</font><br>
</p>
<hr style="color:#8091A5; " align="left" size="2"
noshade="noshade" width="100%"><br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Hi Suro,<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Yes, I did not see a strong reason for
adding "service-list" to show all of magnum system services, but
it is nice to have.<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">But I did see a strong reason to
rename "service-list" to "coe-service-list" or others which
might be more meaningful as I was often asked by someone why
does "magnum service-list" is showing some services in
kubernetes but not magnum system itself? This command always
make people confused.<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Thanks!</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">2015-08-03 15:36 GMT-04:00 SURO <</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><font face="serif" color="#0000FF" size="3"><u><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com">suro.patz@gmail.com</a></u></font></a><font
face="serif" size="3">>:</font>
<ul style="padding-left: 9pt">
<font face="serif" size="3">Hi Jay, <br>
<br>
Thanks for clarifying the requirements further.<br>
<br>
I do agree with the idea of having 'magnum service-list' and
'magnum coe-service-list' to distinguish that coe-service is a
different concept. BUT, in openstack space, I do not see
'service-list' as a standardized function across other APIs -</font>
<ul style="padding-left: 18pt">
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">1. </font><font face="serif"
size="3"> 'nova service-list' => Enlists services like
api, conductor etc. </font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">2. </font><font face="serif"
size="3"> neutron does not have this option.</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">3. </font><font face="serif"
size="3"> 'heat service-list' => Enlists available
engines.</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">4. </font><font face="serif"
size="3"> 'keystone service-list' => Enlists
services/APIs who consults keystone.</font>
</ul>
<font face="serif" size="3">Now in magnum, we may choose to
model it after nova, but nova really has a bunch of backend
services, viz. nova-conductor, nova-cert, nova-scheduler,
nova-consoleauth, nova-compute[x N], whereas magnum not.<br>
<br>
For magnum, at this point creating 'service-list' only for
api/conductor - do you see a strong need?<br>
</font><br>
<tt><font size="3">Regards,<br>
SURO<br>
irc//freenode: suro-patz<br>
</font></tt><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">On 8/3/15 12:00 PM, Jay Lau wrote:</font>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt">
<font face="serif" size="3">Hi Suro and others, comments on
this? Thanks.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">2015-07-30 5:40 GMT-04:00 Jay Lau
<</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jay.lau.513@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font
face="serif" color="#0000FF" size="3"><u>jay.lau.513@gmail.com</u></font></a><font
face="serif" size="3">>:</font>
<ul style="padding-left: 9pt">
<font face="serif" size="3">Hi Suro,<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">In my understanding, even other
CoE might have service/pod/rc concepts in future, we may
still want to distinguish the "magnum service-list" with
"magnum coe-service-list".<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">service-list is mainly for
magnum native services, such as magnum-api,
magnum-conductor etc.</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">coe-service-list mainly for the
services that running for the CoEs in magnum.<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Thoughts? Thanks.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">2015-07-29 17:50 GMT-04:00 SURO
<</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font
face="serif" color="#0000FF" size="3"><u>suro.patz@gmail.com</u></font></a><font
face="serif" size="3">>:</font>
<ul style="padding-left: 9pt">
<font face="serif" size="3">Hi Hongbin,<br>
<br>
What would be the value of having COE-specific magnum
command to go and talk to DB? As in that case, user may
use the native client itself to fetch the data from COE,
which even will have latest state.<br>
<br>
In a pluggable architecture there is always scope for
common abstraction and driver implementation. I think it
is too early to declare service/rc/pod as specific to
k8s, as the other COEs may very well converge onto
similar/same concepts.<br>
</font><br>
<tt><font size="3">Regards,<br>
SURO<br>
irc//freenode: suro-patz<br>
</font></tt><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">On 7/29/15 2:21 PM, Hongbin Lu
wrote:</font>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt">
<br>
<font face="Calibri" color="#1F497D" size="2">Suro,</font>
<p><font face="Calibri" color="#1F497D" size="2"> </font>
</p>
<p><font face="Calibri" color="#1F497D" size="2">I think
service/pod/rc are k8s-specific. +1 for Jay’s
suggestion about renaming COE-specific command,
since the new naming style looks consistent with
other OpenStack projects. In addition, it will
eliminate name collision of different COEs. Also, if
we are going to support pluggable COE, adding prefix
to COE-specific command is unavoidable.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Calibri" color="#1F497D" size="2"> </font>
</p>
<p><font face="Calibri" color="#1F497D" size="2">Best
regards,</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Calibri" color="#1F497D" size="2">Hongbin</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Calibri" color="#1F497D" size="2"> </font>
</p>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"> SURO [</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font
face="Tahoma" color="#0000FF" size="2"><u><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com">mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com</a></u></font></a><font
face="Tahoma" size="2">] </font><font face="Tahoma"
size="2"><b><br>
Sent:</b></font><font face="Tahoma" size="2"> July-29-15
4:03 PM</font><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b><br>
To:</b></font><font face="Tahoma" size="2"> Jay
Lau</font><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b><br>
Cc:</b></font><font face="Tahoma" size="2"> </font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:suro@yahoo-inc.com" target="_blank"><font
face="Tahoma" color="#0000FF" size="2"><u><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:suro@yahoo-inc.com">suro@yahoo-inc.com</a></u></font></a><font
face="Tahoma" size="2">; OpenStack Development
Mailing List (not for usage questions)</font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><b><br>
Subject:</b></font><font face="Tahoma" size="2"> Re:
[openstack-dev] [magnum][blueprint]
magnum-service-list</font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">Hi Jay,<br>
<br>
'service'/'pod'/'rc' are conceptual abstraction at
magnum level. Yes, the abstraction was inspired from
the same in kubernetes, but the data stored in DB
about a 'service' is properly abstracted and not
k8s-specific at the top level. <br>
<br>
If we plan to change this to 'k8s-service-list', the
same applies for even creation and other actions.
This will give rise to COE-specific command and
concepts and which may proliferate further. Instead,
we can abstract swarm's service concept under the
umbrella of magnum's 'service' concept without
creating k8s-service and swarm-service.<br>
<br>
I suggest we should keep the concept/abstraction at
Magnum level, as it is. <br>
</font>
</p>
<p><tt><font size="3">Regards,</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">SURO</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">irc//freenode: suro-patz</font></tt>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">On 7/28/15 7:59 PM, Jay
Lau wrote:</font>
</p>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt">
<font face="serif" size="3">Hi Suro,</font>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">Sorry for late. IMHO,
even the "magnum service-list" is getting data
from DB, but the DB is actually persisting some
data for Kubernetes service, so my thinking is it
possible to change "magnum service-list" to
"magnum k8s-service-list", same for pod and rc.</font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">I know this might bring
some trouble for backward compatibility issue, not
sure if it is good to do such modification at this
time. Comments?</font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">Thanks</font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">2015-07-27 20:12
GMT-04:00 SURO <</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font
face="serif" color="#0000FF" size="3"><u><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com">suro.patz@gmail.com</a></u></font></a><font
face="serif" size="3">>:</font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">Hi all,<br>
As we did not hear back further on the requirement
of this blueprint, I propose to keep the existing
behavior without any modification.<br>
<br>
We would like to explore the decision on this
blueprint on our next weekly IRC meeting[1].<br>
</font>
</p>
<p><tt><font size="3">Regards,</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">SURO</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">irc//freenode: suro-patz</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3"> </font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">[1] - </font></tt><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers"
target="_blank"><tt><font color="#0000FF" size="3"><u><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers</a></u></font></tt></a>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td valign="middle" width="110"><font
face="serif" size="3">2015-07-28 </font></td>
<td valign="middle" width="170"><font
face="serif" size="3">UTC 2200 Tuesday </font></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<tt><font size="3"> </font></tt>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">On 7/21/15 4:54 PM,
SURO wrote: </font>
</p>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt">
<font face="serif" size="3">Hi all, [special
attention: Jay Lau] The bp[1] registered, asks for
the following implementation - </font>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt" type="disc">
<li><font face="serif" size="3">'magnum
service-list' should be similar to 'nova
service-list'</font>
</li>
<li><font face="serif" size="3">'magnum
service-list' should be moved to be ' magnum
k8s-service-list'. Also similar holds true for
'pod-list'/'rc-list'</font></li>
</ul>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">As I dug some details, I
find - </font>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt" type="disc">
<li><font face="serif" size="3">'magnum
service-list' fetches data from OpenStack
DB[2], instead of the COE endpoint. So
technically it is not k8s-specific. magnum is
serving data for objects modeled as 'service',
just the way we are catering for 'magnum
container-list' in case of swarm bay.</font>
</li>
<li><font face="serif" size="3">If magnum provides
a way to get the COE endpoint details, users
can use native tools to fetch the status of
the COE-specific objects, viz. 'kubectl get
services' here.</font>
</li>
<li><font face="serif" size="3">nova has lot more
backend services, e.g. cert, scheduler,
consoleauth, compute etc. in comparison to
magnum's conductor only. Also, not all the
api's have this 'service-list' available. </font></li>
</ul>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">With these arguments in
view, can we have some more
explanation/clarification in favor of the ask in
the blueprint? [1] - </font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-service-list"
target="_blank"><font face="serif" color="#0000FF"
size="3"><u><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-service-list">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-service-list</a></u></font></a><font
face="serif" size="3"> [2] - </font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/magnum/objects/service.py#L114"
target="_blank"><font face="serif" color="#0000FF"
size="3"><u><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/magnum/objects/service.py#L114">https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/magnum/objects/service.py#L114</a></u></font></a><font
face="serif" size="3"> </font>
<p><tt><font size="3">-- </font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">Regards,</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">SURO</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="3">irc//freenode: suro-patz</font></tt></p>
</ul>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3"><br>
<br>
<br>
-- </font>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">Thanks,</font>
</p>
<p><font face="serif" size="3">Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)</font></p>
</ul>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
<p><font face="serif" size="3"><br>
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<font face="serif" size="3">Thanks,<br>
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-- </font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Thanks,<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)</font><br>
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