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    Hi Jay, <br>
    <br>
    Thanks for clarifying the requirements further.<br>
    <br>
    I do agree with the idea of having 'magnum service-list' and 'magnum
    coe-service-list' to distinguish that coe-service is a different
    concept. BUT, in openstack space, I do not see 'service-list' as a
    standardized function across other APIs -<br>
    <ol>
      <li> 'nova service-list' => Enlists services like api,
        conductor etc. <br>
      </li>
      <li> neutron does not have this option.</li>
      <li> 'heat service-list' => Enlists available engines.</li>
      <li> 'keystone service-list' => Enlists services/APIs who
        consults keystone.</li>
    </ol>
    Now in magnum, we may choose to model it after nova, but nova really
    has a bunch of backend services, viz. nova-conductor, nova-cert,
    nova-scheduler, nova-consoleauth, nova-compute[x N], whereas magnum
    not.<br>
    <br>
    For magnum, at this point creating 'service-list' only for
    api/conductor - do you see a strong need?<br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Regards,
SURO
irc//freenode: suro-patz
</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/3/15 12:00 PM, Jay Lau wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAFyztAGNsekt5H-omYSyXXYuhs_b4pZv-Tg9CyS4G_KW8YMDtA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Hi Suro and others, comments on this? Thanks.<br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">2015-07-30 5:40 GMT-04:00 Jay Lau <span
            dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:jay.lau.513@gmail.com" target="_blank">jay.lau.513@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>Hi Suro,<br>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    In my understanding, even other CoE might have
                    service/pod/rc concepts in future, we may still want
                    to distinguish the "magnum service-list" with
                    "magnum coe-service-list".<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  service-list is mainly for magnum native services,
                  such as magnum-api, magnum-conductor etc.<br>
                </div>
                coe-service-list mainly for the services that running
                for the CoEs in magnum.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
              Thoughts? Thanks.<br>
            </div>
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">2015-07-29 17:50 GMT-04:00
                    SURO <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank">suro.patz@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi Hongbin,<br>
                        <br>
                        What would be the value of having COE-specific
                        magnum command to go and talk to DB? As in that
                        case, user may use the native client itself to
                        fetch the data from COE, which even will have
                        latest state.<br>
                        <br>
                        In a pluggable architecture there is always
                        scope for common abstraction and driver
                        implementation. I think it is too early to
                        declare service/rc/pod as specific to k8s, as
                        the other COEs may very well converge onto
                        similar/same concepts.<br>
                        <br>
                        <pre cols="72">Regards,
SURO
irc//freenode: suro-patz
</pre>
                        <span>
                          <div>On 7/29/15 2:21 PM, Hongbin Lu wrote:<br>
                          </div>
                        </span>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div><span>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Suro,</span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
                                  think service/pod/rc are k8s-specific.
                                  +1 for Jay’s suggestion about renaming
                                  COE-specific command, since the new
                                  naming style looks consistent with
                                  other OpenStack projects. In addition,
                                  it will eliminate name collision of
                                  different COEs. Also, if we are going
                                  to support pluggable COE, adding
                                  prefix to COE-specific command is
                                  unavoidable.</span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best

                                  regards,</span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hongbin</span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                            </span>
                            <div>
                              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                                      lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                                    lang="EN-US"> SURO [<a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com"
                                      target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com">mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com</a></a>]
                                    <br>
                                    <span> <b>Sent:</b> July-29-15 4:03
                                      PM<br>
                                      <b>To:</b> Jay Lau<br>
                                      <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:suro@yahoo-inc.com"
                                        target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:suro@yahoo-inc.com">suro@yahoo-inc.com</a></a>;
                                      OpenStack Development Mailing List
                                      (not for usage questions)<br>
                                      <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                      [openstack-dev]
                                      [magnum][blueprint]
                                      magnum-service-list</span></span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <span>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jay,<br>
                                <br>
                                'service'/'pod'/'rc' are conceptual
                                abstraction at magnum level. Yes, the
                                abstraction was inspired from the same
                                in kubernetes, but the data stored in DB
                                about a 'service' is properly abstracted
                                and not k8s-specific at the top level. <br>
                                <br>
                                If we plan to change this to
                                'k8s-service-list', the same applies for
                                even creation and other actions. This
                                will give rise to COE-specific command
                                and concepts and which may proliferate
                                further. Instead, we can abstract
                                swarm's service concept under the
                                umbrella of magnum's 'service' concept
                                without creating k8s-service and
                                swarm-service.<br>
                                <br>
                                I suggest we should keep the
                                concept/abstraction at Magnum level, as
                                it is. <br>
                                <br>
                              </p>
                              <pre>Regards,</pre>
                              <pre>SURO</pre>
                              <pre>irc//freenode: suro-patz</pre>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">On 7/28/15 7:59 PM,
                                  Jay Lau wrote:</p>
                              </div>
                            </span>
                            <blockquote
                              style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><span>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
                                        Suro,</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                      style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Sorry
                                      for late. IMHO, even the "magnum
                                      service-list" is getting data from
                                      DB, but the DB is actually
                                      persisting some data for
                                      Kubernetes service, so my thinking
                                      is it possible to change "magnum
                                      service-list" to "magnum
                                      k8s-service-list", same for pod
                                      and rc.</p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                      style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I
                                      know this might bring some trouble
                                      for backward compatibility issue,
                                      not sure if it is good to do such
                                      modification at this time.
                                      Comments?</p>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
                                </div>
                              </span>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">2015-07-27
                                        20:12 GMT-04:00 SURO <<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com"
                                          target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:suro.patz@gmail.com">suro.patz@gmail.com</a></a>>:</p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<br>
                                          As we did not hear back
                                          further on the requirement of
                                          this blueprint, I propose to
                                          keep the existing behavior
                                          without any modification.<br>
                                          <br>
                                          We would like to explore the
                                          decision on this blueprint on
                                          our next weekly IRC
                                          meeting[1].<br>
                                            </p>
                                        <pre>Regards,</pre>
                                        <pre>SURO</pre>
                                        <pre>irc//freenode: suro-patz</pre>
                                        <pre> </pre>
                                        <pre>[1] - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers</a></pre>
                                        <table border="0"
                                          cellpadding="0">
                                          <tbody>
                                            <tr>
                                              <td style="padding:.75pt
                                                .75pt .75pt .75pt">
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">2015-07-28
                                                </p>
                                              </td>
                                              <td style="padding:.75pt
                                                .75pt .75pt .75pt">
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">UTC
                                                  2200 Tuesday </p>
                                              </td>
                                            </tr>
                                          </tbody>
                                        </table>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <pre> </pre>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">On
                                                7/21/15 4:54 PM, SURO
                                                wrote: </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <blockquote
                                              style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">Hi
                                                all, [special attention:
                                                Jay Lau] The bp[1]
                                                registered, asks for the
                                                following implementation
                                                - </p>
                                              <ul type="disc">
                                                <li class="MsoNormal">
                                                  'magnum service-list'
                                                  should be similar to
                                                  'nova service-list'</li>
                                                <li class="MsoNormal">
                                                  'magnum service-list'
                                                  should be moved to be
                                                  ' magnum
                                                  k8s-service-list'.
                                                  Also similar holds
                                                  true for
                                                  'pod-list'/'rc-list'</li>
                                              </ul>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">As I
                                                dug some details, I find
                                                - </p>
                                              <ul type="disc">
                                                <li class="MsoNormal">
                                                  'magnum service-list'
                                                  fetches data from
                                                  OpenStack DB[2],
                                                  instead of the COE
                                                  endpoint. So
                                                  technically it is not
                                                  k8s-specific. magnum
                                                  is serving data for
                                                  objects modeled as
                                                  'service', just the
                                                  way we are catering
                                                  for 'magnum
                                                  container-list' in
                                                  case of swarm bay.</li>
                                                <li class="MsoNormal">
                                                  If magnum provides a
                                                  way to get the COE
                                                  endpoint details,
                                                  users can use native
                                                  tools to fetch the
                                                  status of the
                                                  COE-specific objects,
                                                  viz. 'kubectl get
                                                  services' here.</li>
                                                <li class="MsoNormal">
                                                  nova has lot more
                                                  backend services, e.g.
                                                  cert, scheduler,
                                                  consoleauth, compute
                                                  etc. in comparison to
                                                  magnum's conductor
                                                  only. Also, not all
                                                  the api's have this
                                                  'service-list'
                                                  available. </li>
                                              </ul>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">With
                                                these arguments in view,
                                                can we have some more
                                                explanation/clarification
                                                in favor of the ask in
                                                the blueprint? [1] - <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-service-list"
                                                  target="_blank">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-service-list">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/magnum-service-list</a></a>
                                                [2] - <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/magnum/objects/service.py#L114"
                                                  target="_blank">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/magnum/objects/service.py#L114">https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/magnum/objects/service.py#L114</a></a>
                                              </p>
                                              <pre>-- </pre>
                                              <pre>Regards,</pre>
                                              <pre>SURO</pre>
                                              <pre>irc//freenode: suro-patz</pre>
                                            </blockquote>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                      <br clear="all">
                                      <br>
                                      -- </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks,</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">Jay Lau
                                              (Guangya Liu)</p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <fieldset></fieldset>
                          <br>
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                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <br clear="all">
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div>Thanks,<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)<br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <br>
        -- <br>
        <div class="gmail_signature">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>Thanks,<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
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