<div><br></div><div>I had some problem with my email server today, so you may see several identical messages from me in the ML. Please ignore and sorry about that.</div><div><br></div><div>Peng</div><div><includetail><div> </div><div> </div><div style="font:Verdana normal 14px;color:#000;"><div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY: Arial Narrow;padding:2px 0 2px 0;">------------------ Original ------------------</div><div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px;background:#efefef;padding:8px;"><div id="menu_sender"><b>From: </b> "Peng Zhao"<peng@hyper.sh>;</div><div><b>Date: </b> Mon, Jul 20, 2015 11:41 AM</div><div><b>To: </b> "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>; <wbr></div><div></div><div><b>Subject: </b> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run onmetalwithHyper</div></div><div> </div><div><br></div><div>Hi, Jay, Adrian and Wu,</div><div><br></div><div>I have some problems with my mail server to reply Adrian's message. So let me write here.</div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family: 'lucida Grande', Verdana; line-height: normal;"><div style="line-height: normal;"><div style="line-height: normal;">Let's say someone creates a Hyper bay. The bay will be sth. like BM+Hyper+Cinder+Neutron+k8s/mesos/swarm. This is exactly a mini HyperStack. What nova does in this scenario is to provision the Hyper+BM hosts. Things like LiveMigration, Multi-tenancy, Billing, VPC, Volume, etc., are handled by HyperStack, not nova. Therefore, a second core besides nova is inevitable. Speaking of duplication, HyperStack leverages Cinder and Neutron, which protects ROI.</div><div style="line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="line-height: normal;">Looking at the overall puzzle, one of the biggest missing pieces is a solution of the native CaaS. And HyperStack wants to fill that gap. Hyper bay is a valid case, but more for someone who wants to provides CaaS within their IaaS (nova) platform.</div><div style="line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="line-height: normal;">We plan to present a working beta of HyperStack on Tokyo summit. The next step is to integrate HyperStack with bay for more advanced deployment.</div><div style="line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="line-height: normal;">Best,</div><div style="line-height: normal;">Peng</div></div></div><div style="font-family: 'lucida Grande', Verdana; line-height: normal;"> </div></div><div><div> </div><div> </div><div style="font:Verdana normal 14px;color:#000;"><div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY: Arial Narrow;padding:2px 0 2px 0;">------------------ Original ------------------</div><div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px;background:#efefef;padding:8px;"><div id="menu_sender"><b>From: </b> "Jay Lau"<jay.lau.513@gmail.com>;</div><div><b>Date: </b> Mon, Jul 20, 2015 11:18 AM</div><div><b>To: </b> "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>; <wbr></div><div></div><div><b>Subject: </b> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metalwithHyper</div></div><div> </div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>The nova guys propose move Hyper to Magnum but not Nova as Hyper cannot fit into nova virt driver well.<br><br></div>As Hyper is now integrating with Kubernetes, I think that the integration point may be creating a kubernetes hyper bay with ironic driver.<br><br></div>Thanks<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-07-20 10:00 GMT+08:00 Kai Qiang Wu <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wkqwu@cn.ibm.com" target="_blank">wkqwu@cn.ibm.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<p><font face="sans-serif" size="2">Hi Peng,</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">As @Adrian pointed it out:</font><span class=""><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="2"><i>My fist suggestion is to find a way to make a nova virt driver for Hyper, which could allow it to be used with all of our current Bay types in Magnum.</i></font><font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><font face="sans-serif" size="2">I remembered you or other guys in your company proposed one bp about nova virt driver for Hyper. What's the status of the bp now?</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Is it accepted by nova projects or cancelled ?</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Thanks</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Best Wishes,</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Kai Qiang Wu (吴开强 Kennan）<br>
IBM China System and Technology Lab, Beijing<br>
<br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:wkqwu@cn.ibm.com" target="_blank">wkqwu@cn.ibm.com</a><br>
Tel: 86-10-82451647<br>
Address: Building 28(Ring Building), ZhongGuanCun Software Park, <br>
No.8 Dong Bei Wang West Road, Haidian District Beijing P.R.China 100193</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Follow your heart. You are miracle! </font><br>
<br>
<img src="cid:0C7280CD@0474077A.C785AC55.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"><font color="#424282" face="sans-serif" size="2">Adrian Otto ---07/19/2015 11:18:02 PM---Peng, You are not the first to think this way, and it's one of the reasons we did not integrate Cont</font><span class=""><br>
<br>
<font color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif" size="1">From: </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Adrian Otto <<a href="mailto:adrian.otto@rackspace.com" target="_blank">adrian.otto@rackspace.com</a>></font><br>
</span><span class=""><font color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif" size="1">To: </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>></font><br>
</span><font color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif" size="1">Date: </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">07/19/2015 11:18 PM</font><span class=""><br>
<font color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif" size="1">Subject: </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metal withHyper</font><br>
</span></p><hr style="color:#8091a5" align="left" noshade="noshade" size="2" width="100%"><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Peng,</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">You are not the first to think this way, and it's one of the reasons we did not integrate Containers with OpenStack in a meaningful way a full year earlier. Please pay attention closely.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">1) OpenStack's key influences care about two personas: 1.1) Cloud Operators 1.2) Cloud Consumers. If you only think in terms of 1.2, then your idea will get killed. Operators matter.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">2) Cloud Operators need a consistent way to bill for the IaaS services the provide. Nova emits all of the RPC messages needed to do this. Having a second nova that does this slightly differently is a really annoying problem that will make Operators hate the software. It's better to use nova, have things work consistently, and plug in virt drivers to it.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">3) Creation of a host is only part of the problem. That's the easy part. Nova also does a bunch of other things too. For example, say you want to live migrate a guest from one host to another. There is already functionality in Nova for doing that.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">4) Resources need to be capacity managed. We call this scheduling. Nova has a pluggable scheduler to help with the placement of guests on hosts. Magnum will not.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">5) Hosts in a cloud need to integrate with a number of other services, such as an image service, messaging, networking, storage, etc. If you only think in terms of host creation, and do something without nova, then you need to re-integrate with all of these things.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Now, I probably left out examples of lots of other things that Nova does. What I have mentioned us enough to make my point that there are a lot of things that Magnum is intentionally NOT doing that we expect to get from Nova, and I will block all code that gratuitously duplicates functionality that I believe belongs in Nova. I promised our community I would not duplicate existing functionality without a very good reason, and I will keep that promise.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Let's find a good way to fit Hyper with OpenStack in a way that best leverages what exists today, and is least likely to be rejected. Please note that the proposal needs to be changed from where it is today to achieve this fit.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">My fist suggestion is to find a way to make a nova virt driver for Hyper, which could allow it to be used with all of our current Bay types in Magnum.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Thanks,</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Adrian</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3"><br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Peng Zhao <peng@hyper.sh> <br>
Date: 07/19/2015 5:36 AM (GMT-08:00) <br>
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>> <br>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metal withHyper <br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Thanks Jay.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Hongbin, yes, it will be a scheduling system, either swarm, k8s or mesos. I just think bay isn't a must in this case, and we don't need nova to provision BM hosts, which makes things more complicated imo.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Peng</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial" size="1">------------------ Original ------------------</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="1"><b>From: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> "Jay Lau"<<a href="mailto:jay.lau.513@gmail.com" target="_blank">jay.lau.513@gmail.com</a>>;</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="1"><b>Date: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> Sun, Jul 19, 2015 10:36 AM</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="1"><b>To: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"<<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>; </font><br>
<font face="serif" size="1"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metal withHyper</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Hong Bin,<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">I have some online discussion with Peng, seems hyper is now integrating with Kubernetes and also have plan integrate with mesos for scheduling. Once mesos integration finished, we can treat mesos+hyper as another kind of bay.<br>
</font><br>
<font face="serif" size="3">Thanks</font><br>
<br>
<font face="serif" size="3">2015-07-19 4:15 GMT+08:00 Hongbin Lu <</font><a href="mailto:hongbin.lu@huawei.com" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>hongbin.lu@huawei.com</u></font></a><font face="serif" size="3">>:</font>
<ul style="padding-left:9pt"><font color="#1F497D" face="serif" size="2">Peng,</font>
<p><font color="#1F497D" face="serif" size="2"> </font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="serif" size="2">Several questions Here. You mentioned that HyperStack is a single big “bay”. Then, who is doing the multi-host scheduling, Hyper or something else? Were you suggesting to integrate Hyper with Magnum directly? Or you were suggesting to integrate Hyper with Magnum indirectly (i.e. through k8s, mesos and/or Nova)?</font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="serif" size="2"> </font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="serif" size="2">Best regards,</font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="serif" size="2">Hongbin</font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="serif" size="2"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="2"><b>From:</b></font><font face="serif" size="2"> Peng Zhao [mailto:</font><a href="mailto:peng@hyper.sh" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="2"><u>peng@hyper.sh</u></font></a><font face="serif" size="2">] </font><font face="serif" size="2"><b><br>
Sent:</b></font><font face="serif" size="2"> July-17-15 12:34 PM</font><font face="serif" size="2"><b><br>
To:</b></font><font face="serif" size="2"> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"><b>Subject:</b></font><font face="serif" size="3"> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metal with Hyper</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Hi, Adrian, Jay and all,</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">There could be a much longer version of this, but let me try to explain in a minimalist way.</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Bay currently has two modes: VM-based, BM-based. In both cases, Bay helps to isolate different tenants' containers. In other words, bay is single-tenancy. For BM-based bay, the single tenancy is a worthy tradeoff, given the performance merits of LXC vs VM. However, for a VM-based bay, there is no performance gain, but single tenancy seems a must, due to the lack of isolation in container. Hyper, as a hypervisor-based substitute for container, brings the much-needed isolation, and therefore enables multi-tenancy. In HyperStack, we don't really need Ironic to provision multiple Hyper bays. On the other hand, the entire HyperStack cluster is a single big "bay". Pretty similar to how Nova works.</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Also, HyperStack is able to leverage Cinder, Neutron for SDS/SDN functionality. So when someone submits a Docker Compose app, HyperStack would launch HyperVMs and call Cinder/Neutron to setup the volumes and network. The architecture is quite simple.</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Here are a blog I'd like to recommend: </font><a href="https://hyper.sh/blog/post/2015/06/29/docker-hyper-and-the-end-of-guest-os.html" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>https://hyper.sh/blog/post/2015/06/29/docker-hyper-and-the-end-of-guest-os.html</u></font></a>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Let me know your questions.</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Thanks,</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Peng</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="1">------------------ Original ------------------</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="1"><b>From: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> "Adrian Otto"<</font><a href="mailto:adrian.otto@rackspace.com" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="1"><u>adrian.otto@rackspace.com</u></font></a><font face="serif" size="1">>;</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="1"><b>Date: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> Thu, Jul 16, 2015 11:02 PM</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="1"><b>To: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"<</font><a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="1"><u>openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</u></font></a><font face="serif" size="1">>; </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="1"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face="serif" size="1"> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run onmetalwith Hyper</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Jay, </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Hyper is a substitute for a Docker host, so I expect it could work equally well for all of the current bay types. Hyper’s idea of a “pod” and a Kubernetes “pod” are similar, but different. I’m not yet convinced that integrating Hyper host creation direct with Magnum (and completely bypassing nova) is a good idea. It probably makes more sense to implement use nova with the ironic dirt driver to provision Hyper hosts so we can use those as substitutes for Bay nodes in our various Bay types. This would fit in the place were we use Fedora Atomic today. We could still rely on nova to do all of the machine instance management and accounting like we do today, but produce bays that use Hyper instead of a Docker host. Everywhere we currently offer CoreOS as an option we could also offer Hyper as an alternative, with some caveats. </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">There may be some caveats/drawbacks to consider before committing to a Hyper integration. I’ll be asking those of Peng also on this thread, so keep an eye out.</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Thanks,</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Adrian</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><ul style="padding-left:36pt"><font face="serif" size="3">On Jul 16, 2015, at 3:23 AM, Jay Lau <</font><a href="mailto:jay.lau.513@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>jay.lau.513@gmail.com</u></font></a><font face="serif" size="3">> wrote:</font>
<p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Thanks Peng, then I can see two integration points for Magnum and Hyper:</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">1) Once Hyper and k8s integration finished, we can deploy k8s in two mode: docker and hyper mode, the end user can select which mode they want to use. For such case, we do not need to create a new bay but may need some enhancement for current k8s bay</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">2) After mesos and hyper integration, we can treat mesos and hyper as a new bay to magnum. Just like what we are doing now for mesos+marathon.</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">Thanks!</font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3"> </font>
</p><p><font face="serif" size="3">2015-07-16 17:38 GMT+08:00 Peng Zhao <</font><a href="mailto:peng@hyper.sh" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>peng@hyper.sh</u></font></a><font face="serif" size="3">>:</font></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></ul>
<p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></ul>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="100%"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Hi Jay,</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Yes, we are working with the community to integrate Hyper with Mesos and K8S. Since Hyper uses Pod as the default job unit, it is quite easy to integrate with K8S. Mesos takes a bit more efforts, but still straightforward.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">We expect to finish both integration in v0.4 early August.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Best,</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="2">-----------------------------------------------------</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="2">Hyper - Make VM run like Container</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="2"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Jay Lau <</font><a href="mailto:jay.lau.513@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>jay.lau.513@gmail.com</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">> wrote:</font>
<ul style="padding-left:4pt"><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Hi Peng,<br>
</font>
<p><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Just want to get more for Hyper. If we create a hyper bay, then can I set up multiple hosts in a hyper bay? If so, who will do the scheduling, does mesos or some others integrate with hyper? </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">I did not find much info for hyper cluster management.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Thanks.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">2015-07-16 9:54 GMT+08:00 Peng Zhao <</font><a href="mailto:peng@hyper.sh" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>peng@hyper.sh</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">>:</font>
</p><ul style="padding-left:4pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font></ul>
<p></p></ul>
<br>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="100%">
<ul style="padding-left:4pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">------------------ Original ------------------</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>From: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> “Adrian Otto”<</font><a href="mailto:adrian.otto@rackspace.com" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="1"><u>adrian.otto@rackspace.com</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">>;</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>Date: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> Wed, Jul 15, 2015 02:31 AM</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>To: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> “OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)“<</font><a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="1"><u>openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">>; </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>Subject: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run onmetal withHyper</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng, </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font>
<ul style="padding-left:36pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">On Jul 13, 2015, at 8:37 PM, Peng Zhao <</font><a href="mailto:peng@hyper.sh" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>peng@hyper.sh</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">> wrote:</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Thanks Adrian!</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Hi, all,</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Let me recap what is hyper and the idea of hyperstack. </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Hyper is a single-host runtime engine. Technically, </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Docker = LXC + AUFS</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Hyper = Hypervisor + AUFS</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">where AUFS is the Docker image.</font></ul>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">I do not understand the last line above. My understanding is that AUFS == UnionFS, which is used to implement a storage driver for Docker. Others exist for btrfs, and devicemapper. You select which one you want by setting an option like this:</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">DOCKEROPTS=”-s devicemapper”</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Are you trying to say that with Hyper, AUFS is used to provide layered Docker image capability that are shared by multiple hypervisor guests?</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font></ul>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng >>> Yes, AUFS implies the Docker images here.</font>
<ul style="padding-left:4pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">My guess is that you are trying to articulate that a host running Hyper is a 1:1 substitute for a host running Docker, and will respond using the Docker remote API. This would result in containers running on the same host that have a superior security isolation than they would if LXC was used as the backend to Docker. Is this correct?</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font></ul>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng>>> Exactly </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"><br>
</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Due to the shared-kernel nature of LXC, Docker lacks of the necessary isolation in a multi-tenant CaaS platform, and this is what Hyper/hypervisor is good at.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">And because of this, most CaaS today run on top of IaaS: </font><a href="https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55545e127c7cbe0ec5b82f2b/388x275/e286dea1266b46c1999d566b0f9e326b/iaas.png" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55545e127c7cbe0ec5b82f2b/388x275/e286dea1266b46c1999d566b0f9e326b/iaas.png</u></font></a><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Hyper enables the native, secure, bare-metal CaaS </font><a href="https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55545e127c7cbe0ec5b82f2b/395x244/828ad577dafb3f357e95899e962651b2/caas.png" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55545e127c7cbe0ec5b82f2b/395x244/828ad577dafb3f357e95899e962651b2/caas.png</u></font></a><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">From the tech stack perspective, Hyperstack turns Magnum o run in parallel with Nova, not running on atop.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">For this to work, we’d expect to get a compute host from Heat, so if the bay type were set to “hyper”, we’d need to use a template that can produce a compute host running Hyper. How would that host be produced, if we do not get it from nova? Might it make more sense to make a dirt driver for nova that could produce a Hyper guest on a host already running the nova-compute agent? That way Magnum would not need to re-create any of Nova’s functionality in order to produce nova instances of type “hyper”.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng >>> We don’t have to get the physical host from nova. Let’s say</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> OpenStack = Nova+Cinder+Neutron+Bare-metal+KVM, so “AWS-like IaaS for everyone else”</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> HyperStack= Magnum+Cinder+Neutron+Bare-metal+Hyper, then “Google-like CaaS for everyone else”</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Ideally, customers should deploy a single OpenStack cluster, with both nova/kvm and magnum/hyper. I’m looking for a solution to make nova/magnum co-exist.</font>
<ul style="padding-left:4pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Is Hyper compatible with libvirt?</font></ul>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng>>> We are working on the libvirt integration, expect in v0.5</font>
<ul style="padding-left:4pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Can Hyper support nested Docker containers within the Hyper guest?</font></ul>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng>>> Docker in Docker? In a HyperVM instance, there is no docker daemon, cgroup and namespace (except MNT for pod). VM serves the purpose of isolation. We plan to support cgroup and namespace, so you can control whether multiple containers in a pod share the same namespace, or completely isolated. But in either case, no docker daemon is present.</font>
<ul style="padding-left:4pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Thanks,</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Adrian Otto</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font>
<ul style="padding-left:36pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Best,</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Peng</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">------------------ Original ------------------</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>From: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> “Adrian Otto”<</font><a href="mailto:adrian.otto@rackspace.com" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="1"><u>adrian.otto@rackspace.com</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">>;</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>Date: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> Tue, Jul 14, 2015 07:18 AM</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>To: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> “OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)“<</font><a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="1"><u>openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">>; </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"><b>Subject: </b></font><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metal withHyper</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Team, </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">I woud like to ask for your input about adding support for Hyper in Magnum:</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<a href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/hyperstack" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/hyperstack</u></font></a><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">We touched on this in our last team meeting, and it was apparent that achieving a higher level of understanding of the technology before weighing in about the directional approval of this blueprint. Peng Zhao and Xu Wang have graciously agreed to respond to this thread to address questions about how the technology works, and how it could be integrated with Magnum.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Please take a moment to review the blueprint, and ask your questions here on this thread.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Thanks,</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">Adrian Otto</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font>
<ul style="padding-left:36pt"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">On Jul 2, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Peng Zhao <</font><a href="mailto:peng@hyper.sh" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="3"><u>peng@hyper.sh</u></font></a><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3">> wrote:</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="3"> </font></ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<br>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="743"><font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">Here is the bp of Magnum+Hyper+Metal integration: </font><a href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/hyperstack" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="serif" size="1"><u>https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/hyperstack</u></font></a><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">Wanted to hear more thoughts and kickstart some brainstorming.</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">Thanks,</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">Peng</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> </font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">-----------------------------------------------------</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1">Hyper - Make VM run like Container</font><br>
<font color="#222222" face="serif" size="1"> </font></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks,<br><br></div>Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)<br></div></div></div></div>
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