<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none"><!-- p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; }--></style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>I prefer option a) as well. It does seem like most of the projects would really see no change at all other than being officially sanctioned as an Openstack project with some kind of tag. There's also the possibility the PTL may request some changes to improve
the bigger picture of the Networking/Neutron project. Other than that it sounds like nothing much would change. Is this to solve the whole issue regarding projects graduating to become openstack projects? If so, it sounds like those issues might just be
shuffled to the decision of whether a project should "graduate" to a "better" tag. I'm sure this has come up in the tags discussions, and its a bit out of scope of this email, but it's just a concern I have.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thanks,<br>
</p>
<p>Brandon<br>
</p>
<div style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Fox, Kevin M <Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 22, 2015 2:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] A big tent home for Neutron backend code</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; color:#000000; font-size:10pt">+1<br>
<br>
I was in the middle of writing an email asking about the possibility of splitting out the reference implementation. you beat me to it. :)<br>
<br>
I also like the idea of having the PTL on top to help pass up/down ideas where code can be shared, benefiting everyone.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Kevin<br>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#000000; font-size:16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF310568" style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> Kyle Mestery [mestery@mestery.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] A big tent home for Neutron backend code<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Russell Bryant <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:rbryant@redhat.com" target="_blank">rbryant@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<span class="">Hello!<br>
<br>
A couple of things I've been working on lately are project governance<br>
issues as a TC member and also implementation of a new virtual<br>
networking alternative with a Neutron driver. So, naturally I started<br>
thinking about how the Neutron driver code fits in to OpenStack governance.<br>
<br>
</span></blockquote>
<div>Thanks for starting this conversation Russell.<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<span class="">There are basically two areas with a lot of movement related to this issue.<br>
<br>
1) Project governance has moved to a "big tent" model [1]. The vast<br>
majority of projects that used to be in Stackforge are being folded in<br>
to a larger definition of the OpenStack project. Projects making this<br>
move meet the following criteria as being "one of us":<br>
<br>
<a href="http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html" target="_blank">http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html</a><br>
<br>
Official project teams are tracked in this file along with the git repos<br>
they are responsible for:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/projects.yaml" target="_blank">http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/projects.yaml</a><br>
<br>
which is also reflected here:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/" target="_blank">http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/</a><br>
<br>
</span>The TC has also been working through defining a system to help<br>
differentiate efforts by using a set of "tags" [4]. So far, we have<br>
tags describing the release handling for a repository, as well as a tag<br>
for team diversity. We've also had a lot of discussion about tags to<br>
help describe maturity, but that is still a work in progress.<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
2) In Neutron, some fairly significant good changes are being made to<br>
help scale the development process. Advanced services were split out<br>
into their own repos [2]. Most of the plugin and driver code has also<br>
been split out into repos [3].<br>
<br>
In terms of project teams, the Neutron team is defined as owning the<br>
following repos:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/neutron.html" target="_blank">
http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/neutron.html</a><br>
<br>
- openstack/neutron<br>
- openstack/neutron-fwaas<br>
- openstack/neutron-lbaas<br>
- openstack/neutron-vpnaas<br>
- openstack/neutron-specs<br>
- openstack/python-neutronclient<br>
<br>
The advanced services split is reflected by the fwaas, lbaas, and vpnaas<br>
repos.<br>
<br>
We also have a large set of repositories related to Neutron backend code:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://git.openstack.org/cgit/?q=stackforge%2Fnetworking" target="_blank">
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/?q=stackforge%2Fnetworking</a><br>
<br>
- stackforge/networking-arista<br>
- stackforge/networking-bagpipe-l2<br>
- stackforge/networking-bgpvpn<br>
- stackforge/networking-bigswitch<br>
- stackforge/networking-brocade<br>
- stackforge/networking-cisco<br>
- stackforge/networking-edge-vpn<br>
- stackforge/networking-hyperv<br>
- stackforge/networking-ibm<br>
- stackforge/networking-l2gw<br>
- stackforge/networking-midonet<br>
- stackforge/networking-mlnx<br>
- stackforge/networking-nec<br>
- stackforge/networking-odl<br>
- stackforge/networking-ofagent<br>
- stackforge/networking-ovn<br>
- stackforge/networking-ovs-dpdk<br>
- stackforge/networking-plumgrid<br>
- stackforge/networking-portforwarding<br>
- stackforge/networking-vsphere<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Note that not all of these are equivalent. This is just a list of<br>
stackforge/networking-*.<br>
<span class=""><br>
In some cases there is a split between code in the Neutron tree and in<br>
</span>this repo. In those cases, a shim is in the Neutron tree, but most of<br>
<span class="">the code is in the external repo. It's also possible to have all of the<br>
code in the external repo.<br>
<br>
</span>There's also a big range of maturity. Some are quite mature and are<br>
already used in production. networking-ovn as an example is quite new<br>
and being developed in parallel with OVN in the Open vSwitch project.<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
So, my question is: Where should these repositories live in terms of<br>
</span>OpenStack governance and project teams?<br>
<br>
Here are a few paths I think we could take, along with some of my<br>
initial thoughts on pros/cons.<br>
<span class=""><br>
a) Adopt these as repositories under the Neutron project team.<br>
<br>
In this case, I would see them operating with their own review teams as<br>
they do today to avoid imposing additional load on the neutron-core or<br>
neutron-specs-core teams. However, by being a part of the Neutron team,<br>
</span>the backend team would submit to oversight by the Neutron PTL.<br>
<span class=""><br>
</span></blockquote>
<div>Out of your options proposed, this seems like the most logical one to me. I don't really see this imposing a ton of strain on the existing core reviewer team, because we'll keep whatever core reviewer teams are already in the networking-foo projects.<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<span class="">There are some other details to work out to ensure expectations are<br>
</span>clearly set for everyone involved. If this is the path that makes<br>
<span class="">sense, we can work through those as a next step.<br>
<br>
</span>Pros:<br>
+ Seems to be the most natural first choice<br>
<br>
Cons:<br>
- A lot of changes have been made precisely because Neutron has gotten<br>
so big. A single project team/PTL may not be able to effectively<br>
coordinate all of the additional work. Maybe the core Neutron project<br>
would be better off focusing on being a platform, and other project<br>
teams organize work on backends.<br>
<span class=""><br>
</span></blockquote>
<div>It's interesting you mention neutron "being a platform", because that's exactly where I want it to go in Liberty as well. To that end, I expect to propose a spec splitting out the reference implementation into a separate git repository under the neutron
namespace. This will make Neutron an API/DB layer, which is what it should be. It also means the existing reference implementation is on equal footing with things like OVN, ofagent, midonet, OpenDaylight, OpenContrail, and OpenCarrierPigeon [1].<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>One thing which is worth bringing up in this context is the potential overlap between this implementations. I think having them all under the Neutron project would allow me as PTL and the rest of the team work to combine things when it makes sense.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Kyle<br>
</div>
<div><br>
[1] <a href="http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html" target="_blank">http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<span class="">b) Let each interested group define a new project team for their backend<br>
code.<br>
<br>
</span></blockquote>
<div>To be honest, I don't this is a scalable option. I'm involved with 2 of these networking-foo projects, and there is not enough participation so far to warrant an entirely new project, PTL and infra around it. This is just my opinion, but it's an opinion
I've taken after having contributed to networking-odl and networking-ovn for the past 5 months.<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<span class="">So, as an example, the group of people working on Neutron integration<br>
with OpenDaylight could propose a new project team that would be a<br>
projects.yaml entry that looks something like:<br>
<br>
Neutron-OpenDaylight:<br>
ptl: Some Person (ircnick)<br>
service: OpenDaylight Networking<br>
mission: ><br>
To implement Neutron support for the OpenDaylight project.<br>
url: ...<br>
projects:<br>
- repo: openstack/networking-odl<br>
<br>
</span>Pros:<br>
+ There's no additional load on the Neutron project team and PTL.<br>
<br>
Cons:<br>
- Having all of these efforts organized under a single project team and<br>
PTL might be better for ensuring some level of collaboration and<br>
consistency.<br>
<span class=""><br>
c) A single new project team could be created that is led by a single<br>
person to coordinate the sub-teams working on each repo. In this<br>
scenario, I could see the overall collaboration being around ensuring<br>
</span>consistent approaches to development process, testing, documentation,<br>
and releases.<br>
<span class=""><br>
That would be something like this (note that the project list would be<br>
limited to those who actually want to be included in the official<br>
</span>project team and meet some set of inclusion criteria).<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
Neutron-Backends:<br>
ptl: Some Person (ircnick)<br>
service: Networking Backends<br>
mission: ><br>
To implement Neutron backend support for various networking<br>
technologies.<br>
url: ...<br>
projects:<br>
- openstack/networking-arista<br>
- openstack/networking-bagpipe-l2<br>
- openstack/networking-bgpvpn<br>
- openstack/networking-bigswitch<br>
- openstack/networking-brocade<br>
- openstack/networking-cisco<br>
- openstack/networking-edge-vpn<br>
- openstack/networking-hyperv<br>
- openstack/networking-ibm<br>
- openstack/networking-l2gw<br>
- openstack/networking-midonet<br>
- openstack/networking-mlnx<br>
- openstack/networking-nec<br>
- openstack/networking-odl<br>
- openstack/networking-ofagent<br>
- openstack/networking-ovn<br>
- openstack/networking-ovs-dpdk<br>
- openstack/networking-plumgrid<br>
- openstack/networking-portforwarding<br>
- openstack/networking-vsphere<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Pros:<br>
+ There's no additional load on the Neutron project team and PTL.<br>
+ Avoids a proliferation of new project teams for each Neutron backend.<br>
+ Puts efforts under a single team and PTL to help facilitate<br>
collaboration and consistency.<br>
<br>
Cons:<br>
- Some might see this as an unnatural split from Neutron.<br>
- The same sort of oversight and coordination could potentially happen<br>
with a delegate of the Neutron PTL in the Neutron project team without<br>
making it separate.<br>
<span class=""><br>
d) I suppose the last option is to declare that none of these repos make<br>
sense as an OpenStack project. It's hard for me to imagine this making<br>
</span>sense except for cases where the teams don't want their work to be<br>
officially included in OpenStack, or they fail to meet our base set of<br>
<span class="">project guidelines.<br>
<br>
<br>
What option do you think makes sense? Or is there another option that<br>
should be considered?<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="http://www.openstack.org/blog/2015/02/tc-update-project-reform-progress/" target="_blank">
http://www.openstack.org/blog/2015/02/tc-update-project-reform-progress/</a><br>
[2]<br>
<a href="http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/services-split.html" target="_blank">http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/services-split.html</a><br>
[3]<br>
<a href="http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/core-vendor-decomposition.html" target="_blank">http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/core-vendor-decomposition.html</a><br>
</span>[4] <a href="http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/" target="_blank">
http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/</a><br>
<span class=""><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Russell Bryant<br>
<br>
__________________________________________________________________________<br>
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
Unsubscribe: <a href="http://OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe" target="_blank">
OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>