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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>"<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:53 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [Congress][Delegation] Initial workflow design<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Hi Tim, All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">    
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Step 3: The VM-placement engine is also a “datalog engine” . Right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">When policies are delegated:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:17.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">when policies are inserted? When the VM-placement engine has already registered itself all policies
 are given to it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:17.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:17.4pt"><span lang="EN-US">“In our example, this would mean the domain-specific policy engine executes the following API call over the DSE”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US">“domain-agnostic” ….</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>Done.</div>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Step 4:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Ok<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">But finally: if Congress will likely “delegate”
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>Not sure what you’re suggesting here.</div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">    
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Step 5:  Compilation of subpolicy to LP in VM-placement engine<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">For the PoC, it is likely that the LP program ( in PuLP or some other ML) is *<b>not</b>* completely generated by
 compiler/translator.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Right?</span></p>
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<div>Where does the rest of the program originate?  I’m not saying the entire LP program is generated from the Datalog constraints; some of it is generated by the solver independent of the Datalog.  In the text, I gave the example of defining hMemUse[j].</div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">     You also indicate that some category of constraints (“</span><span lang="EN-US">the LP solver doesn’t know what the
 relationship between assign[i][j], hMemUse[j], and vMemUse[i] actually is, so the VM-placement engine must also include constraints”) .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">     </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">These constraints must be “explicitly” written?</span><span lang="EN-US"> 
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">(e.g. max_ram_allocation etc that are constraints used in the solver-scheduler’s package).</span></p>
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<div>The VM-placement engine does 2 things: (I) translates Datalog to LP and (ii) generates additional LP constraints.  (Both work items could leverage any constraints that are builtin to a specific solver, e.g. the solver-scheduler.  The point is that there
 are 2 distinct, conceptual origins of the LP constraints: those that represent the Datalog and those that codify the domain.</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">         So what “parts” will be generated:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">            Cost function :
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">            Constraint from Policy : memory usage < 75%
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">           
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">         Then the rest should be “filled” up?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">         Could we convene on an intermediary “modeling language”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">            @Yathi: do you think we could use some thing like AMPL ? Is this proprietary?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">    A detail: the example “</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">Y[host1] = hMemUse[host1] > 0.75 * hMemCap[host1]</span><span lang="EN-US">”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">To be changed to a linear form (mi – Mi > 0 then Yi = 1 else Yi = 0) so something like (mi – Mi) < 100 yi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>Each domain-specific solver can do whatever it wants, so it’s not clear to me what the value of choosing a modeling language actually is—unless we want to build a library of common functionality that makes the construction of domain-specific engine (wrappers)
 easier.  I’d prefer to spend our energy understanding whether the proposed workflow/interface works for a couple of different domain-specific policy engines OR to flush this one out and build it.</div>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Step 6: This is completely internal to the VM-placement engine (and we could say this is “transparent” to Congress)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">We should allow configuration of a solver (this itself could be a policy
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:black">J</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"> )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">How to invoke the solver API ?  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">The domain-specific placement engine could send out to DSE (action_handler: data)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>I had always envisioned the solver being just a library of code—not an entity that sits on the DSE itself.  </div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">3)   Step 7 : Perform the migrations (according to the assignments computed in the step 6)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">     This part invokes OpenStack API (to perform migrations).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">     We may suppose that there are services implementing “action handlers”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">     It can listen on the DSE and execute the action.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>That interface is supposed to exist by the Kilo release.  I’ll check up on the progress.</div>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Nova tables to use<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Policy
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">warning(id) :-</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">    nova:host(id, name, service, zone, memory_capacity),</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">    legacy:special_zone(zone),</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">    ceilometer:statistics(id, "memory", avg, count, duration,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">     durstart, durend, max, min, period,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">perstart, perend, sum, unit),</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: 'Courier New';">    avg > 0.75 * memory_capacity</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">I believe that ceilometer gives usage of VMs and not hosts. The host table (ComputeNode table) should give current
 used capacity. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>Good to know.  </div>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">One of the issues highlighted in OpenStack (scheduler) and also elsewhere (e.g. Omega scheduler by google) is :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Reading “host utilization” state from the data bases and DB (nova:host table) updates and overhead of maintaining
 in-memory state uptodate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">This is expensive and current nova-scheduler does face this issue (many blogs/discussions).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">      While the first goal is a PoC, this will likely become a concern in terms of adoption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>So you’re saying we won’t have fresh enough data to make policy decisions?  If the data changes so frequently that we can’t get an accurate view, then I’m guessing we shouldn’t be migrating based on that data anyway.</div>
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<div>Could you point me to some of these discussions?</div>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">While in this document you have changed the “example” policy, could we drill down the set of policies for the PoC (the server under
 utilization ?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">As a reference
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<div>Sure.  The only reason I chose this policy was because it doesn’t have aggregation.  I’m guessing we’ll want to avoid aggregation for the POC because we don’t yet have it in Congress, and it complicates the problem of translating Datalog to LP substantially.
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<div>Tim</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;">Ruby<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">De :</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> Yathiraj Udupi (</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">yudupi)
 [<a href="mailto:yudupi@cisco.com">mailto:yudupi@cisco.com</a>] <br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 24 février 2015 20:01<br>
<b>À :</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions); Tim Hinrichs<br>
<b>Cc :</b> Debo Dutta (dedutta)<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Congress][Delegation] Initial workflow design<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Hi Tim, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks for your updated doc on Delegation from Congress to a domain-specific policy engine, in this case, you are planning to build a LP-based VM-Placement
 engine to be the domain specific policy engine. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I agree your main goal is to first get the delegation interface sorted out.  It will be good so that external services (like Solver-Scheduler) can also easily
 integrate to the delegation model. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">From the Solver-Scheduler point of view,  we would actually want to start working on a PoC effort to start integrating Congress and the Solver-Scheduler.   <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">We believe rather than pushing this effort to a long-term,  it would add value to both the Solver Scheduler effort, as well as the Congress effort to try some
 early integration now, as most of the LP solver work for VM placements is ready available now in Solver scheduler, and we need to spend some time thinking about translating your domain-agnostic policy to constraints that the Solver scheduler can use. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I would definitely need your help from the Congress interfaces and I hope you will share your early interfaces for the delegation, so I can start the effort
 from the Solver scheduler side for integration.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I will reach out to you to get some initial help for integration w.r.t. Congress, and also keep you posted about the progress from our side. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Yathi. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">On 2/23/15, 11:28 AM, "Tim Hinrichs" <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com">thinrichs@vmware.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I made a heavy editing pass of the Delegation google doc, incorporating many of your comments and my latest investigations into VM-placement.  I left the old stuff in
 place at the end of the doc and put the new stuff at the top.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">My goal was to propose an end-to-end workflow for a PoC that we could put together quickly to help us explore the delegation interface.  We should iterate on this design
 until we have something that we think is workable.   And by all means pipe up if you think we need a totally different starting point to begin the iteration.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">(BTW I'm thinking of the integration with solver-scheduler as a long-term solution to VM-placement, once we get the delegation interface sorted out.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1ksDilJYXV-2D5AXWON8PLMedDKr9NpS8VbT0jIy-5FMIEtI_edit&d=AwMFAw&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=B6BWd4kFfgOzAREgThxkmTZKy7dDXE2-eBAmL0PBK7s&m=kF8jMOpogOhk8MJWvNMKJC3PiNImxWpZeD2o642YM2s&s=8PV5EW-kz8Q9aP9riFbIjJXJNZXchx2NsL-Z3Y7E5Vg&e=">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ksDilJYXV-5AXWON8PLMedDKr9NpS8VbT0jIy_MIEtI/edit#</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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