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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Hello Debo/Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">My understanding is that with Congress things like filters (e.g. anti-affinity or other aggregates) will be replaced to be written as policies with
Datalog.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Goals (a Policy), Constraints (policies in Congress) will also get translated to (for example) linear programs in some modelling language (e.g. PuLP).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">So this is likely to be a major change to the scheduler?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Ruby<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Debojyoti Dutta [mailto:ddutta@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 13 février 2015 14:06<br>
<b>À :</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Congress][Delegation] Google doc for working notes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tim <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Wanted to clarify a bit. As I have mentioned before: Solver scheduler is work done before this work (Datalog->constraints).... but we had kept it very generic to be integrated with something like congress. In fact Ramki (who was one of
the members of the original thread when you reached out to us) joined us to in talk in Atlanta where we described some of the same use cases using PULP .... congress was still ramping up then. We were not aware of the Datalog->constraints work that you guys
were doing, else we would have joined hands before.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The question is this: going forward, how do build this cool stuff together in the community? I am hoping the scheduler folks will be very excited too!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">debo<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi) <<a href="mailto:yudupi@cisco.com" target="_blank">yudupi@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Tim, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks for your response. Excited too to extend the collaboration and ensure there is no need to duplicate effort in the open source community. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> My responses inline. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">1) Choice of LP solver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I see solver-scheduler uses Pulp, which was on the Congress short list as well. So we’re highly aligned on the choice of underlying solver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">YATHI - This makes me wonder why can’t we easily adapt the solver-scheduler to your needs, rather than duplicating the effort!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">2) User control over VM-placement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">To choose the criteria for VM-placement, the solver-scheduler user picks from a list of predefined options, e.g. ActiveHostConstraint, MaxRamAllocationPerHostConstraint.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">We’re investigating a slightly different approach, where the user defines the criteria for VM-placement by writing any policy they like in Datalog. Under the
hood we then convert that Datalog to an LP problem. From the developer’s perspective, with the Congress approach we don’t attempt to anticipate the different policies the user might want and write code for each policy; instead, we as developers write a translator
from Datalog to LP. From the user’s perspective, the difference is that if the option they want isn’t on the solver-scheduler's list, they’re out of luck or need to write the code themselves. But with the Congress approach, they can write any VM-placement
policy they like.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">What I’d like to see is the best of both worlds. Users write Datalog policies describing whatever VM-placement policy they want. If the policy they’ve written
is on the solver-scheduler’s list of options, we use the hard-coded implementation, but if the policy isn’t on that list we translate directly to LP. This approach gives us the ability to write custom code to handle common cases while at the same time letting
users write whatever policy they like.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">YATHI - The idea of providing some default constraint classes in Solver Scheduler was to enable easy pluggability for various placement policy scenarios. We
can easily add a custom constraint class in solver scheduler, that enables adding additional constraints at runtime (PulP model or any other models we can use and support). It will just take in any external policy (say Datalog in Congress example), and it
can easily add those set of resulting translated constraints via this custom constraint builder class. This is something we can definitely add value to solver scheduler by implementing and adding here. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">3) API and architecture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Today the solver-scheduler's VM-placement policy is defined at config-time (i.e. not run-time). Am I correct that this limitation is only because there’s no
API call to set the solver-scheduler’s policy? Or is there some other reason the policy is set at config-time?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Congress policies change at runtime, so we’ll definitely need a VM-placement engine whose policy can be changed at run-time as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">YATHI - We have working code to set VM placement policies at run-time to dynamically select the constraint or cost classes to use. It is yet to upstreamed
to solver scheduler stackforge repo, but will be soon. But yeah I agree with you, this is definitely needed for any policy-driven VM placement engine, as the policies are dynamic. Short answer, yes solver scheduler has abilities to support this. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">If we focus on just migration (and not provisioning), we can build a VM-placement engine that sits outside of Nova that has an API call that allows us to set
policy at runtime. We can also set up that engine to get data updates that influence the policy. We were planning on creating this kind of VM-placement engine within Congress as a node on the DSE (our message bus). This is convenient because all nodes on
the DSE run in their own thread, any node on the DSE can subscribe to any data from any other node (e.g. ceilometer’s data), and the algorithms for translating Datalog to LP look to be quite similar to the algorithms we’re using in our domain-agnostic policy
engine.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">YATHI – The entire scheduling community in Nova is planning on an external scheduler (Gantt), and we are pitching solver scheduler also as a stand-alone placement
engine a scheduler as a service. Nova integration is just to ensure it fits within the Nova workflow. I am not quite familiar with the DSE architecture yet, but the simple idea we have is, Congress policies, as part of the enforcement workflow, should
set the VM placement constraints, and feed any additional data to be used for scheduling/placement decisions, which will be consumed dynamically by the Solver Scheduler, and after the delegation, the Solver scheduler module will calculate the placement decisions,
and complete the VM initial placement or call the VM migration APIs and enable the required migrations. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Yathi. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On 2/12/15, 10:02 AM, "Tim Hinrichs" <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com" target="_blank">thinrichs@vmware.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Debo and Yathiraj,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I took a third look at the solver-scheduler docs and code with your comments in mind. A few things jumped out.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">2) User control over VM-placement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Feb 11, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Debojyoti Dutta <<a href="mailto:ddutta@gmail.com" target="_blank">ddutta@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Tim: moving our thread to the mailer. Excited to collaborate!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Debo~ Dutta <<a href="mailto:dedutta@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dedutta@cisco.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 4:48 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Tim Hinrichs <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">thinrichs@vmware.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi)" <<a href="mailto:yudupi@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">yudupi@cisco.com</span></a>>, Gokul B Kandiraju <<a href="mailto:gokul@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gokul@us.ibm.com</span></a>>,
Prabhakar Kudva <<a href="mailto:kudva@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kudva@us.ibm.com</span></a>>, "<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</span></a>>,
"<a href="mailto:dilikris@in.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dilikris@in.ibm.com</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:dilikris@in.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dilikris@in.ibm.com</span></a>>, Norival Figueira <<a href="mailto:nfigueir@Brocade.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">nfigueir@Brocade.com</span></a>>,
Ramki Krishnan <<a href="mailto:ramk@Brocade.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ramk@Brocade.com</span></a>>, "Xinyuan Huang (xinyuahu)" <<a href="mailto:xinyuahu@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">xinyuahu@cisco.com</span></a>>,
"Rishabh Jain -X (rishabja - AAP3 INC at Cisco)" <<a href="mailto:rishabja@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">rishabja@cisco.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Nova solver scheduler and Congress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Tim <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">To address your particular questions: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">translate some policy language into constraints for the LP/CVP and we had left that to congress hoping to integrate when the policy efforts in openstack were ready (our initial effort was pre
congress) <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">For migrations: we are currently doing that – its about incremental constraints into the same solver. Hence its a small deal …. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Joining forces is a terrific idea. Would love to join the IRC call and see how we can build cool stuff in the community together. I hope we don’t have to replicate
the vm placement engine while the work that was done in the community does something very similar (and be adapted)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">debo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim Hinrichs <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">thinrichs@vmware.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 4:43 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Debo~ Dutta <<a href="mailto:dedutta@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dedutta@cisco.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi)" <<a href="mailto:yudupi@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">yudupi@cisco.com</span></a>>, Gokul B Kandiraju <<a href="mailto:gokul@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gokul@us.ibm.com</span></a>>,
Prabhakar Kudva <<a href="mailto:kudva@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kudva@us.ibm.com</span></a>>, "<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</span></a>>,
"<a href="mailto:dilikris@in.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dilikris@in.ibm.com</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:dilikris@in.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dilikris@in.ibm.com</span></a>>, Norival Figueira <<a href="mailto:nfigueir@Brocade.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">nfigueir@Brocade.com</span></a>>,
Ramki Krishnan <<a href="mailto:ramk@Brocade.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ramk@Brocade.com</span></a>>, "Xinyuan Huang (xinyuahu)" <<a href="mailto:xinyuahu@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">xinyuahu@cisco.com</span></a>>,
"Rishabh Jain -X (rishabja - AAP3 INC at Cisco)" <<a href="mailto:rishabja@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">rishabja@cisco.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Nova solver scheduler and Congress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Debo,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The 2 efforts share great similarities, which was why we investigated the state of solver-scheduler. From what I understand, (i) solver-scheduler doesn’t currently
have a policy language and (ii) it doesn’t do migrations. (I realize these are both in the works.) We needed both and wanted to make progress before those were complete.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">In the long run, it may make perfect sense to replace our vm-placement engine with yours. So joining forces sounds like a good idea. At the very *least* we
ought to keep up to date with each other’s progress. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I’m starting to wonder if we ought to schedule a (bi-) weekly IRC for this topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Feb 11, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Debo Dutta (dedutta) <<a href="mailto:dedutta@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dedutta@cisco.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Tim <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">This looks awesome. Trying to figure out how this approach is different from the solver scheduler effort we did? We would be happy to fold our solver scheduler
effort into this (that way you also get code up and running)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Will also respond on the thread. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">thx<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">debo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim Hinrichs <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">thinrichs@vmware.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 4:11 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi)" <<a href="mailto:yudupi@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">yudupi@cisco.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Gokul B Kandiraju <<a href="mailto:gokul@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gokul@us.ibm.com</span></a>>, Prabhakar Kudva <<a href="mailto:kudva@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kudva@us.ibm.com</span></a>>,
"<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ruby.krishnaswamy@orange.com</span></a>>,
"<a href="mailto:dilikris@in.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dilikris@in.ibm.com</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:dilikris@in.ibm.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dilikris@in.ibm.com</span></a>>, Norival Figueira <<a href="mailto:nfigueir@Brocade.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">nfigueir@Brocade.com</span></a>>,
Ramki Krishnan <<a href="mailto:ramk@Brocade.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ramk@Brocade.com</span></a>>, "Xinyuan Huang (xinyuahu)" <<a href="mailto:xinyuahu@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">xinyuahu@cisco.com</span></a>>,
"Rishabh Jain -X (rishabja - AAP3 INC at Cisco)" <<a href="mailto:rishabja@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">rishabja@cisco.com</span></a>>, Debo~ Dutta <<a href="mailto:dedutta@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">dedutta@cisco.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Nova solver scheduler and Congress<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Yathiraj,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The group is getting big enough that we’ve decided to move the entire discussion to the openstack-dev mailing list. I sent a note today with the google doc we’re
working on. We’re trying to include [Congress][Delegation] in the subject line of relevant posts. Here’s the gdoc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1ksDilJYXV-2D5AXWON8PLMedDKr9NpS8VbT0jIy-5FMIEtI_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=AwMF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=B6BWd4kFfgOzAREgThxkmTZKy7dDXE2-eBAmL0PBK7s&m=no-emyiErtYa3_zneDNhY78LG0mCHc0bgMpXi1StZ7A&s=rLY2ACQqD5EQn3MgOnoX8M_zr9254v-FqhF56wfGpic&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#954F72">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ksDilJYXV-5AXWON8PLMedDKr9NpS8VbT0jIy_MIEtI/edit?usp=sharing</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Feb 10, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi) <<a href="mailto:yudupi@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">yudupi@cisco.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Tim, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks for your response. I think Congress will have to appreciate different APIs interacting with multiple components in the OpenStack ecosystem. So I will
be happy to help figure out the integration plan in general from the Congress side. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I will be very interested and glad to participate in the discussions of designing these interfaces in Congress. Please share any preliminary designs you may
have. I had participated in one of the Congress mid-cycle meet ups, and I am interested in the upcoming work on these kind of enforcement aspects (reactive, proactive) of Congress. In terms of Nova scheduling via Solver scheduler, it will also help us be
ready with the integration points. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Let’s be in sync. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Yathi. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On 2/10/15, 11:03 AM, "Tim Hinrichs" <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">thinrichs@vmware.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Yathiraj,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks for the help!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The reason I asked is that we’re trying to figure out the basic interface for how two policy engines (in general) ought to interact. We were hoping Congress
and solver-scheduler had very similar APIs, which would make that interface relatively simple. But it sounds like the two systems have pretty different APIs. So for now we’ll keep working on that interface, and once we have something worked out we’ll touch
base with you to think through how an integration might work. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Feb 6, 2015, at 11:45 AM, Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi) <<a href="mailto:yudupi@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">yudupi@cisco.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Tim, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks for reaching out. Currently available documentation is all in the project README - <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_stackforge_nova-2Dsolver-2Dscheduler_blob_master_README.md&d=AwMF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=B6BWd4kFfgOzAREgThxkmTZKy7dDXE2-eBAmL0PBK7s&m=4W62lNEl8JKjwUKKASTM0fjHUVJATmMpEsCoYaeA_OQ&s=1rPI8hfdD9f8_B9_14xALPUjAuJJnWVJRhugMJ16IIk&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://github.com/stackforge/nova-solver-scheduler/blob/master/README.md</span></a>
Towards the end there are some examples. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">To answer your specific questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">1) How do we change the Nova server-placement policy? An API call? A file on the Nova server? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">- Currently the server placement policies are all defined in solver scheduler in the form of pluggable constraint or cost modules. So imagine there will be a
policy to place a compute VM close to on a storage volume host, there is a volume affinity cost module - <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_stackforge_nova-2Dsolver-2Dscheduler_blob_master_nova_scheduler_solvers_costs_volume-5Faffinity-5Fcost.py&d=AwMF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=B6BWd4kFfgOzAREgThxkmTZKy7dDXE2-eBAmL0PBK7s&m=4W62lNEl8JKjwUKKASTM0fjHUVJATmMpEsCoYaeA_OQ&s=T34XhGj816dbMWcnLKU0Oda99ku1twIhUWN_SLTHPkQ&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://github.com/stackforge/nova-solver-scheduler/blob/master/nova/scheduler/solvers/costs/volume_affinity_cost.py</span></a> and
you will feed the necessary inputs for the policy via scheduler hints that are induced during the nova API calls, in this case of the volume cost, the scheduler hint will be to provide the specific volume id. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">- So all these constraint and cost classes are defined the nova conf file, so all applicable policies are included statically at the moment, and inputs to the
policies are via scheduler hints. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">- We are yet to commit the code to dynamically set these policies at run-time, so we can choose what policies to include. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">2) What policy language does solver-scheduler use?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">- We haven’t yet added support for a formal policy language, but everything is implemented as pluggable modules now, and a policy will be simply defining what
constraints or costs to use, for what scenarios. We plan to use simple policy rules to define this, and will be added soon in the roadmap. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">3) I presume solver-scheduler *provisions* servers according to policy. Does it also *migrate* servers when they begin to violate policy?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Yes for provisioning according to policy, Support for migration is coming soon, and will utilize the nova migration workflow based on a policy violation detected
by a constraint validator. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Congress could feed some of these policies in terms of selecting our solver scheduler constraints and costs for specific scenarios, and also feed the necessary
scheduler hints. So based on the Congress policy, we can select our constraints and costs, and enable nova server placement accordingly. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Including our small solver scheduler team here from Cisco, we will be glad to work with the community. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Yathi. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On 2/5/15, 4:22 PM, "Tim Hinrichs" <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">thinrichs@vmware.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Yathiraj,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I had a couple of questions about the nova solver scheduler. We’re looking into driving server-placement via policy through Congress and wanted to understand
more about how solver-scheduler works. If it’s easier to just point me to docs or examples, that’d be great!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Tim Hinrichs <<a href="mailto:thinrichs@vmware.com" target="_blank">thinrichs@vmware.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi all,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">A (growing) group of folks are interested in working on the problem of delegating policy from Congress to domain-specific policy engines. We started looking
at an NFV use case: migrating VMs to reduce energy consumption. In particular we’re looking into building a VM-placement policy engine built on top of a linear programming solver. Here’s a doc with some working notes where we’re trying to figure out how
to do the translation from Congress policy to the linear program.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1ksDilJYXV-2D5AXWON8PLMedDKr9NpS8VbT0jIy-5FMIEtI_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=AwMFaQ&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=B6BWd4kFfgOzAREgThxkmTZKy7dDXE2-eBAmL0PBK7s&m=ZN1RTPgf15rmqr46xMdX8HUY-fmlaOfIY3TWbQlfgBk&s=zdYLSRitftQH2q_b1lhY80vIsECD9-xW6LZhcwJrRZA&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#954F72">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ksDilJYXV-5AXWON8PLMedDKr9NpS8VbT0jIy_MIEtI/edit?usp=sharing</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888">Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
__________________________________________________________________________<br>
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<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">--
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">-Debo~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Debo~<o:p></o:p></p>
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