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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/04/2015 07:01 PM, Li, Chen wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks very
much for the reply.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Really sorry
for the late response.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">In your case if you have a
driver that doesn't handle share servers, then the network
is complete out of scope for Manila. Drivers that don't
manage share servers have neither flat not segment
networking in Manila, they have NO networking.</span><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ð<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">So, you mean there is no way I can
work as I want, right ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">But, is it
possible to enable that ?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think you missed the point when I say networking is out of scope
for non-share-server-handling drivers. All that that means is that
Manila will not be involved with the management of the network
resources for the backend or the network paths between the clients
and the server. The reason for this is to allow administrators to
configure the network however they like. Arbitrarily complicated
network designs are possible when you use a driver with
driver_manages_share_servers=False because you're free to do what
you want and Manila doesn't care.<br>
<br>
I think people sometimes forget that Manila doesn't want to be
involved with network management. We only touch the network where
it's unavoidable, such as when we have to create new virtual
machines that need to be reachable over the network from existing
VMs. There already exist many other great tools inside and outside
of OpenStack for doing network management and we want to avoid
duplicating or overlapping with their functionality as much as
possible.<br>
<br>
<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span>
<blockquote
cite="mid:988E98D31B01E44893AF6E48ED9DEFD401BB4C89@SHSMSX101.ccr.corp.intel.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If you noticed,
we’re trying to enable HDFS in manila: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/hdfs-driver">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/hdfs-driver</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">That’s the main
reason I want to emphasize on my driver do not handle share
server.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Big data users
want to have a unify storage when they’re working in cloud.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Because
instances are not reliable resource in cloud. Put data
together with instances while making sure data’s reliability
would be complicated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The biggest
difference between HDFS and all currently backends manila
support is:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:9.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D">HDFS has different control path and
data path.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:9.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D">For a HDFS cluster, it has one name
node and multi data nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:9.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D">Client would talk to “name node”
first, get data location and then talk to data nodes to get
data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> The “Export
location” represent “name node” information only.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ð<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">We can’t put any “share-server” in the
middle of user instances and HDFS cluster.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">But, it do
possible to let the HDFS work in the cloud with restrictions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ð<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">It can only support one share-network
at one time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">This actually
restrict the ability of the manila backend, no multi-tenancy
at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">We want to use
HDFS like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Connect users’
“share-network” and “HDFS-cluster-network” by router.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Similar to
currently generic driver’s behavior when
“connect_share_server_to_tenant_network = False” while no
“share-server” exist.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Access control
is achieved based on its own user.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">We can add some
access control based on keystone users and keystone tenants
to avoid bad users to connect to HDFS cluster at very
beginning if that’s possible.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">-chen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Ben Swartzlander [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ben@swartzlander.org">mailto:ben@swartzlander.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 12:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for
usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Manila]Questions
about using not handle share-servers drivers with "Flat
network"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On 01/27/2015
06:39 PM, Li, Chen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi list,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have some questions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hope can get help from you guys.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Manila has two driver modes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For handle share server drivers, the
share-network is easy to understand.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For not handle share-servers drivers,
manila request admin to do everything before manila-share
service start, and when the service is running, it only serves
requests do not contain "share-network".<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I kept confusing about which/why users
would create shares without "share-network". Although when
working with this kind of driver, the manila-share service can
only support one specific network restricted by the backend.
But “users” do not know backends, they should always want to
create shares with "share-network", because users always want
to connect shares to their instances that lives in the cloud
with “share-network”.<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Then I have been told that these shares
created without "share-network" are assumed to be used on a
"public network".
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The "public network" do make a clear
explanation about why "share-network" not matter anymore.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But, when I build my cloud with Manila,
what I want to do is let backends to serve my “Flat
network”.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I want to have 2 backends in Manila, both
of them are “<b><i>not</i></b> handle share-servers
drivers”.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I set 192.168.6.253 for backend1 and
create a “Flat network” in neutron with subnet
192.168.6.0/24 with IP range from 192.168.6.1-192.168.6.252.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I set 192.168.7.253 for backend2 and
create a “Flat network” in neutron with subnet
192.168.7.0/24 with IP range from 192.168.7.1-192.168.7.252.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason I build my cloud like this is
because I want to do some performance tests on both
backends, to compare the two backends.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think it should not hard to do it, but
manila do not support that currently.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, is this the behavior should work ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Or anything else I missed ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><br>
Manila needs to support backends that can create share
servers and backends that can't create share servers. We do
this because of the reality that different storage systems
have different capabilities and designs, and we don't want
to block anything that can reasonably described as a shared
filesystem from working with Manila.<br>
<br>
For the purposes of Manila, a share server is a logically
isolated instance of a file share server, with its own IP
address, routing tables, security domain, and name services.
Manila only tracks the existence of share servers that were
created as the result of a share-create operation. Share
servers created by manila have IP addresses assigned by
Manila, and can be expected to be deleted by Manila sometime
after the last share on that share server is deleted.
Backends that simply create shares on a preexsting storage
systems are not referred to as share servers and networking
concerns for those systems are out of scope for Manila.<br>
<br>
The reason we distinguish between so-called "flat" and
"segmented" networks is to accommodate the reality that in
the real world, storage systems often exist inside labs and
datacenters where the network is not under the control of
the storage admin. This was a key point we identified during
Juno and one of the major reasons for the network
rearchitecture during Kilo. If a storage controller is
connected into a flat subnet it may be able to create share
servers on that subnet, but nothing more fancy. To
participate in multiple subnets some form of network
virtualization or segmentation is required and oftentimes
that's not possible either due to lack of support on the
storage controller, lack of support in the network due to
physical or administrative limitations, or even lack of
sophistication on the part of the deployer (don't discount
this last one -- the difficulty of getting the network right
is a major blocker for admins who want to try out Manila).<br>
<br>
What flat network means from Manila's perspective is that
share servers may be created but only on a network
predefined by the administrator, and not on any
tenant-defined network. Connectivity between the tenant
network and the share server network is considered out of
scope for Manila. Segmented network means that Manila
presumes complete control of the network through some
powerful plugin such as Neutron such that Manila can connect
share servers to any network specified by the tenant, and
Manila assumes responsibility for establishing any needed
routes.<br>
<br>
In your case if you have a driver that doesn't handle share
servers, then the network is complete out of scope for
Manila. Drivers that don't manage share servers have neither
flat not segment networking in Manila, they have NO
networking.<br>
<br>
I'll do a followup mail on the UI changes that are coming
around share networks and the mess that they have become.
For now, you just have to know that share networks should
not be used with drivers that don't manage share servers,
and they should be used with drivers that do manage share
servers.<br>
<br>
-Ben Swartzlander<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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