<div dir="ltr">Yes, that's the synchronization block for which we use the stack lock. Currently, a thread spin waits to acquire the lock to enter this critical section.<div><br></div><div>I don't really know how to do application level transaction. Is there an external library for that? AFAIK, we cannot switch from DB transaction to application level to do some computation to resolve next set of resources, submit to async queue, and again continue with the DB transaction. The transnational method looks attractive and clean to me but I am limited by my knowledge.Or do you mean to have DB transaction object made available via DB APIs and use them in the application? Please share your thoughts.</div><div><br></div><div>To avoid locking the stack, we were thinking of designating a single engine with responsibility of processing all notifications for a stack. All the workers will notify on the stack topic, which only one engine listens to and then the notifications end up in a queue (local to the engine, per stack), from where they are taken up one-by-one to continue the stack operation. The convergence jobs are produced by this engine for the stack it is responsible for, and they might end-up in any of the engines. But the notifications for a stack are directed to one engine to avoid contention for lock. The convergence load is leveled and distributed, and stack lock is not needed.</div><div><br></div><div>- Anant </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 1:49 AM, Clint Byrum <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:clint@fewbar.com" target="_blank">clint@fewbar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Excerpts from Anant Patil's message of 2014-11-30 23:02:29 -0800:<br>
<div><div class="h5">> On 27-Nov-14 18:03, Murugan, Visnusaran wrote:<br>
> > Hi Zane,<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > At this stage our implementation (as mentioned in wiki<br>
> > <<a href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/ConvergenceDesign" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/ConvergenceDesign</a>>) achieves your<br>
> > design goals.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > 1. In case of a parallel update, our implementation adjusts graph<br>
> > according to new template and waits for dispatched resource tasks to<br>
> > complete.<br>
> ><br>
> > 2. Reason for basing our PoC on Heat code:<br>
> ><br>
> > a. To solve contention processing parent resource by all dependent<br>
> > resources in parallel.<br>
> ><br>
> > b. To avoid porting issue from PoC to HeatBase. (just to be aware<br>
> > of potential issues asap)<br>
> ><br>
> > 3. Resource timeout would be helpful, but I guess its resource<br>
> > specific and has to come from template and default values from plugins.<br>
> ><br>
> > 4. We see resource notification aggregation and processing next<br>
> > level of resources without contention and with minimal DB usage as the<br>
> > problem area. We are working on the following approaches in *parallel.*<br>
> ><br>
> > a. Use a Queue per stack to serialize notification.<br>
> ><br>
> > b. Get parent ProcessLog (ResourceID, EngineID) and initiate<br>
> > convergence upon first child notification. Subsequent children who fail<br>
> > to get parent resource lock will directly send message to waiting parent<br>
> > task (topic=stack_id.parent_resource_id)<br>
> ><br>
> > Based on performance/feedback we can select either or a mashed version.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Advantages:<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. Failed Resource tasks can be re-initiated after ProcessLog<br>
> > table lookup.<br>
> ><br>
> > 2. One worker == one resource.<br>
> ><br>
> > 3. Supports concurrent updates<br>
> ><br>
> > 4. Delete == update with empty stack<br>
> ><br>
> > 5. Rollback == update to previous know good/completed stack.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Disadvantages:<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. Still holds stackLock (WIP to remove with ProcessLog)<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Completely understand your concern on reviewing our code, since commits<br>
> > are numerous and there is change of course at places. Our start commit<br>
> > is [c1b3eb22f7ab6ea60b095f88982247dd249139bf] though this might not help J<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Your Thoughts.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Happy Thanksgiving.<br>
> ><br>
> > Vishnu.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > *From:*Angus Salkeld [mailto:<a href="mailto:asalkeld@mirantis.com">asalkeld@mirantis.com</a>]<br>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:46 AM<br>
> > *To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
> > *Subject:* Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] Convergence proof-of-concept showdown<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Zane Bitter <<a href="mailto:zbitter@redhat.com">zbitter@redhat.com</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:zbitter@redhat.com">zbitter@redhat.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > A bunch of us have spent the last few weeks working independently on<br>
> > proof of concept designs for the convergence architecture. I think<br>
> > those efforts have now reached a sufficient level of maturity that<br>
> > we should start working together on synthesising them into a plan<br>
> > that everyone can forge ahead with. As a starting point I'm going to<br>
> > summarise my take on the three efforts; hopefully the authors of the<br>
> > other two will weigh in to give us their perspective.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Zane's Proposal<br>
> > ===============<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="https://github.com/zaneb/heat-convergence-prototype/tree/distributed-graph" target="_blank">https://github.com/zaneb/heat-convergence-prototype/tree/distributed-graph</a><br>
> ><br>
> > I implemented this as a simulator of the algorithm rather than using<br>
> > the Heat codebase itself in order to be able to iterate rapidly on<br>
> > the design, and indeed I have changed my mind many, many times in<br>
> > the process of implementing it. Its notable departure from a<br>
> > realistic simulation is that it runs only one operation at a time -<br>
> > essentially giving up the ability to detect race conditions in<br>
> > exchange for a completely deterministic test framework. You just<br>
> > have to imagine where the locks need to be. Incidentally, the test<br>
> > framework is designed so that it can easily be ported to the actual<br>
> > Heat code base as functional tests so that the same scenarios could<br>
> > be used without modification, allowing us to have confidence that<br>
> > the eventual implementation is a faithful replication of the<br>
> > simulation (which can be rapidly experimented on, adjusted and<br>
> > tested when we inevitably run into implementation issues).<br>
> ><br>
> > This is a complete implementation of Phase 1 (i.e. using existing<br>
> > resource plugins), including update-during-update, resource<br>
> > clean-up, replace on update and rollback; with tests.<br>
> ><br>
> > Some of the design goals which were successfully incorporated:<br>
> > - Minimise changes to Heat (it's essentially a distributed version<br>
> > of the existing algorithm), and in particular to the database<br>
> > - Work with the existing plugin API<br>
> > - Limit total DB access for Resource/Stack to O(n) in the number of<br>
> > resources<br>
> > - Limit overall DB access to O(m) in the number of edges<br>
> > - Limit lock contention to only those operations actually contending<br>
> > (i.e. no global locks)<br>
> > - Each worker task deals with only one resource<br>
> > - Only read resource attributes once<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Open questions:<br>
> > - What do we do when we encounter a resource that is in progress<br>
> > from a previous update while doing a subsequent update? Obviously we<br>
> > don't want to interrupt it, as it will likely be left in an unknown<br>
> > state. Making a replacement is one obvious answer, but in many cases<br>
> > there could be serious down-sides to that. How long should we wait<br>
> > before trying it? What if it's still in progress because the engine<br>
> > processing the resource already died?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Also, how do we implement resource level timeouts in general?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Michał's Proposal<br>
> > =================<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="https://github.com/inc0/heat-convergence-prototype/tree/iterative" target="_blank">https://github.com/inc0/heat-convergence-prototype/tree/iterative</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Note that a version modified by me to use the same test scenario<br>
> > format (but not the same scenarios) is here:<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="https://github.com/zaneb/heat-convergence-prototype/tree/iterative-adapted" target="_blank">https://github.com/zaneb/heat-convergence-prototype/tree/iterative-adapted</a><br>
> ><br>
> > This is based on my simulation framework after a fashion, but with<br>
> > everything implemented synchronously and a lot of handwaving about<br>
> > how the actual implementation could be distributed. The central<br>
> > premise is that at each step of the algorithm, the entire graph is<br>
> > examined for tasks that can be performed next, and those are then<br>
> > started. Once all are complete (it's synchronous, remember), the<br>
> > next step is run. Keen observers will be asking how we know when it<br>
> > is time to run the next step in a distributed version of this<br>
> > algorithm, where it will be run and what to do about resources that<br>
> > are in an intermediate state at that time. All of these questions<br>
> > remain unanswered.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Yes, I was struggling to figure out how it could manage an IN_PROGRESS<br>
> > state as it's stateless. So you end up treading on the other action's toes.<br>
> ><br>
> > Assuming we use the resource's state (IN_PROGRESS) you could get around<br>
> > that. Then you kick off a converge when ever an action completes (if<br>
> > there is nothing new to be<br>
> ><br>
> > done then do nothing).<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > A non-exhaustive list of concerns I have:<br>
> > - Replace on update is not implemented yet<br>
> > - AFAIK rollback is not implemented yet<br>
> > - The simulation doesn't actually implement the proposed architecture<br>
> > - This approach is punishingly heavy on the database - O(n^2) or worse<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Yes, re-reading the state of all resources when ever run a new converge<br>
> > is worrying, but I think Michal had some ideas to minimize this.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > - A lot of phase 2 is mixed in with phase 1 here, making it<br>
> > difficult to evaluate which changes need to be made first and<br>
> > whether this approach works with existing plugins<br>
> > - The code is not really based on how Heat works at the moment, so<br>
> > there would be either a major redesign required or lots of radical<br>
> > changes in Heat or both<br>
> ><br>
> > I think there's a fair chance that given another 3-4 weeks to work<br>
> > on this, all of these issues and others could probably be resolved.<br>
> > The question for me at this point is not so much "if" but "why".<br>
> ><br>
> > Michał believes that this approach will make Phase 2 easier to<br>
> > implement, which is a valid reason to consider it. However, I'm not<br>
> > aware of any particular issues that my approach would cause in<br>
> > implementing phase 2 (note that I have barely looked into it at all<br>
> > though). In fact, I very much want Phase 2 to be entirely<br>
> > encapsulated by the Resource class, so that the plugin type (legacy<br>
> > vs. convergence-enabled) is transparent to the rest of the system.<br>
> > Only in this way can we be sure that we'll be able to maintain<br>
> > support for legacy plugins. So a phase 1 that mixes in aspects of<br>
> > phase 2 is actually a bad thing in my view.<br>
> ><br>
> > I really appreciate the effort that has gone into this already, but<br>
> > in the absence of specific problems with building phase 2 on top of<br>
> > another approach that are solved by this one, I'm ready to call this<br>
> > a distraction.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > In it's defence, I like the simplicity of it. The concepts and code are<br>
> > easy to understand - tho' part of this is doesn't implement all the<br>
> > stuff on your list yet.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Anant & Friends' Proposal<br>
> > =========================<br>
> ><br>
> > First off, I have found this very difficult to review properly since<br>
> > the code is not separate from the huge mass of Heat code and nor is<br>
> > the commit history in the form that patch submissions would take<br>
> > (but rather includes backtracking and iteration on the design). As a<br>
> > result, most of the information here has been gleaned from<br>
> > discussions about the code rather than direct review. I have<br>
> > repeatedly suggested that this proof of concept work should be done<br>
> > using the simulator framework instead, unfortunately so far to no avail.<br>
> ><br>
> > The last we heard on the mailing list about this, resource clean-up<br>
> > had not yet been implemented. That was a major concern because that<br>
> > is the more difficult half of the algorithm. Since then there have<br>
> > been a lot more commits, but it's not yet clear whether resource<br>
> > clean-up, update-during-update, replace-on-update and rollback have<br>
> > been implemented, though it is clear that at least some progress has<br>
> > been made on most or all of them. Perhaps someone can give us an update.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="https://github.com/anantpatil/heat-convergence-poc" target="_blank">https://github.com/anantpatil/heat-convergence-poc</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > AIUI this code also mixes phase 2 with phase 1, which is a concern.<br>
> > For me the highest priority for phase 1 is to be sure that it works<br>
> > with existing plugins. Not only because we need to continue to<br>
> > support them, but because converting all of our existing<br>
> > 'integration-y' unit tests to functional tests that operate in a<br>
> > distributed system is virtually impossible in the time frame we have<br>
> > available. So the existing test code needs to stick around, and the<br>
> > existing stack create/update/delete mechanisms need to remain in<br>
> > place until such time as we have equivalent functional test coverage<br>
> > to begin eliminating existing unit tests. (We'll also, of course,<br>
> > need to have unit tests for the individual elements of the new<br>
> > distributed workflow, functional tests to confirm that the<br>
> > distributed workflow works in principle as a whole - the scenarios<br>
> > from the simulator can help with _part_ of this - and, not least, an<br>
> > algorithm that is as similar as possible to the current one so that<br>
> > our existing tests remain at least somewhat representative and don't<br>
> > require too many major changes themselves.)<br>
> ><br>
> > Speaking of tests, I gathered that this branch included tests, but I<br>
> > don't know to what extent there are automated end-to-end functional<br>
> > tests of the algorithm?<br>
> ><br>
> > From what I can gather, the approach seems broadly similar to the<br>
> > one I eventually settled on also. The major difference appears to be<br>
> > in how we merge two or more streams of execution (i.e. when one<br>
> > resource depends on two or more others). In my approach, the<br>
> > dependencies are stored in the resources and each joining of streams<br>
> > creates a database row to track it, which is easily locked with<br>
> > contention on the lock extending only to those resources which are<br>
> > direct dependencies of the one waiting. In this approach, both the<br>
> > dependencies and the progress through the graph are stored in a<br>
> > database table, necessitating (a) reading of the entire table (as it<br>
> > relates to the current stack) on every resource operation, and (b)<br>
> > locking of the entire table (which is hard) when marking a resource<br>
> > operation complete.<br>
> ><br>
> > I chatted to Anant about this today and he mentioned that they had<br>
> > solved the locking problem by dispatching updates to a queue that is<br>
> > read by a single engine per stack.<br>
> ><br>
> > My approach also has the neat side-effects of pushing the data<br>
> > required to resolve get_resource and get_att (without having to<br>
> > reload the resources again and query them) as well as to update<br>
> > dependencies (e.g. because of a replacement or deletion) along with<br>
> > the flow of triggers. I don't know if anything similar is at work here.<br>
> ><br>
> > It's entirely possible that the best design might combine elements<br>
> > of both approaches.<br>
> ><br>
> > The same open questions I detailed under my proposal also apply to<br>
> > this one, if I understand correctly.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I'm certain that I won't have represented everyone's work fairly<br>
> > here, so I encourage folks to dive in and correct any errors about<br>
> > theirs and ask any questions you might have about mine. (In case you<br>
> > have been living under a rock, note that I'll be out of the office<br>
> > for the rest of the week due to Thanksgiving so don't expect<br>
> > immediate replies.)<br>
> ><br>
> > I also think this would be a great time for the wider Heat community<br>
> > to dive in and start asking questions and suggesting ideas. We need<br>
> > to, ahem, converge on a shared understanding of the design so we can<br>
> > all get to work delivering it for Kilo.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Agree, we need to get moving on this.<br>
> ><br>
> > -Angus<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > cheers,<br>
> > Zane.<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> Thanks Zane for your e-mail Zane and summarizing everyone's work.<br>
><br>
> The design goals mentioned above looks more of performance goals and<br>
> constraints to me. I understand that it is unacceptable to have a poorly<br>
> performing engine and Resource plug-ins broken. Convergence spec clearly<br>
> mentions that the existing Resource plugins should not be changed.<br>
><br>
> IMHO, and my teams' HO, the design goals of convergence would be:<br>
> 1. Stability: No transient failures, either in Openstack/external<br>
> services or resources themselves, should fail the stack. Therefore, we<br>
> need to have Observers to check for divergence and converge a resource<br>
> if needed, to bring back to stable state.<br>
> 2. Resiliency: Heat engines should be able to take up tasks in case of<br>
> failures/restarts.<br>
> 3. Backward compatibility: "We don't break the user space." No existing<br>
> stacks should break.<br>
><br>
> We started the PoC with these goals in mind, any performance<br>
> optimization would be a plus point for us. Note than I am neglecting the<br>
> performance goal, just that it should be next in the pipeline. The<br>
> questions we should ask ourselves is whether we are storing enough data<br>
> (state of stack) in DB to enable resiliency? Are we distributing the<br>
> load evenly to all Heat engines? Does our notification mechanism<br>
> provides us some form of guarantee or acknowledgement?<br>
><br>
> In retrospective, we had to struggle a lot to understand the existing<br>
> Heat engine. We couldn't have done justice by just creating another<br>
> project in GitHub and without any concrete understanding of existing<br>
> state-of-affairs. We are not at the same page with Heat core members, we<br>
> are novice and cores are experts.<br>
><br>
> I am glad that we experimented with the Heat engine directly. The<br>
> current Heat engine is not resilient and the messaging also lacks<br>
> reliability. We (my team and I guess cores also) understand that async<br>
> message passing would be the way to go as synchronous RPC calls simply<br>
> wouldn't scale. But with async message passing there has to be some<br>
> mechanism of ACKing back, which I think lacks in current infrastructure.<br>
><br>
> How could we provide stable user defined stack if the underlying Heat<br>
> core lacks it? Convergence is all about stable stacks. To make the<br>
> current Heat core stable we need to have, at the least:<br>
> 1. Some mechanism to ACK back messages over AMQP. Or some other solid<br>
> mechanism of message passing.<br>
> 2. Some mechanism for fault tolerance in Heat engine using external<br>
> tools/infrastructure like Celerey/Zookeeper. Without external<br>
> infrastructure/tool we will end-up bloating Heat engine with lot of<br>
> boiler-plate code to achieve this. We had recommended Celery in our<br>
> previous e-mail (from Vishnu.)<br>
><br>
> It was due to our experiments with Heat engines for this PoC, we could<br>
> come up with above recommendations.<br>
><br>
> Sate of our PoC<br>
> ---------------<br>
><br>
> On GitHub: <a href="https://github.com/anantpatil/heat-convergence-poc" target="_blank">https://github.com/anantpatil/heat-convergence-poc</a><br>
><br>
> Our current implementation of PoC locks the stack after each<br>
> notification to mark the graph as traversed and produce next level of<br>
> resources for convergence. We are facing challenges in<br>
> removing/minimizing these locks. We also have two different school of<br>
> thoughts for solving this lock issue as mentioned above in Vishnu's<br>
> e-mail. I will these descibe in detail the Wiki. There would different<br>
> branches in our GitHub for these two approaches.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div>It would be helpful if you explained why you need to _lock_ the stack.<br>
MVCC in the database should be enough here. Basically you need to:<br>
<br>
begin transaction<br>
update traversal information<br>
select resolvable nodes<br>
{in code not sql -- send converge commands into async queue}<br>
commit<br>
<br>
Any failure inside this transation should rollback the transaction and<br>
retry this. It is o-k to have duplicate converge commands for a resource.<br>
<br>
This should be the single point of synchronization between workers that<br>
are resolving resources. Or perhaps this is the lock you meant? Either<br>
way, this isn't avoidable if you want to make sure everything is attempted<br>
at least once without having to continuously poll and re-poll the stack<br>
to look for unresolved resources. That is an option, but not one that I<br>
think is going to be as simple as the transactional method.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>