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    Reply to Valeriy below and to Marc further below...<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 12/03/2014 02:39 AM, Valeriy Ponomaryov wrote:<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">According to (2) - yes, analog of
        Cinder's "manage/unmanage" is not implemented in Manila yet.<br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Manage/unmanage is a feature I'm very interested in seeing in
    Manila. I suspect it will be harder to get right in Manila than it
    was for Cinder, however, and more importantly, getting it right will
    depend a lot on the work that's going on right now to support pools
    and driver modes. For Manila core it won't actually be that much
    work but for individual drivers, implementing manage/unmanage can be
    a huge amount of work, so we should try to define the semantics of
    manage/unmanage at the project level to strike a good balance
    between usefulness to administrators and making it practical to
    implement.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Marc
          Koderer <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:marc@koderer.com" target="_blank">marc@koderer.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
            Valeriy,<br>
            <br>
            thanks for feedback. My answers see below.<br>
            <br>
            Am 02.12.2014 um 16:44 schrieb Valeriy Ponomaryov <<a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:vponomaryov@mirantis.com">vponomaryov@mirantis.com</a>>:<br>
            <span class=""><br>
              > Hello Marc,<br>
              ><br>
              > Here, I tried to cover mentioned use cases with
              "implemented or not" notes:<br>
              ><br>
              > 1) Implemented, but details of implementation are
              different for different share drivers.<br>
              > 2) Not clear for me. If you mean possibility to mount
              one share to any amount of VMs, then yes.<br>
              <br>
            </span>That means you have an existing shared volume in your
            storage system and import<br>
            it to manila (like cinder manage). I guess this is not
            implemented yet.<br>
            <span class=""><br>
              > 3) Nova is used only in one case - Generic Driver
              that uses Cinder volumes. So, it can be said, that Manila
              interface does allow to use "flat" network and a share
              driver just should have implementation for it. I will
              assume you mean usage of generic driver and possibility to
              mount shares to different machines except Nova VMs. - In
              that case network architecture should allow to make
              connection in general. If it is allowed, then should not
              be any problems with mount to any machine. Just
              access-allow operations should be performed.<br>
              <br>
            </span>This point was actually a copy from the wiki [1]. I
            just removed the Bare-metal point<br>
            since for me it doesn’t matter whether the infrastructure
            service is a Bare-metal machine or not.<br>
            <span class=""><br>
              > 4) Access can be shared, but it is not as flexible as
              could be wanted. Owner of a share can grant access to all,
              and if there is network connectivity between user and
              share host, then user will be able to mount having
              provided access.<br>
              <br>
            </span>Also a copy from the wiki.<br>
            <span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
              > 5) Manila can not remove some "mount" of some share,
              it can remove access for possibility to mount in general.
              So, looks like not implemented.<br>
              > 6) Implemented.<br>
              > 7) Not implemented yet.<br>
              > 8) No "cloning", but we have snapshot-approach as for
              volumes in cinder.<br>
              <br>
              Regards<br>
            </span><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Marc<br>
              </font></span>
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5"><br>
                ><br>
                > Regards,<br>
                > Valeriy Ponomaryov<br>
                > Mirantis<br>
                ><br>
                > On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Marc Koderer <<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:marc@koderer.com">marc@koderer.com</a>>
                wrote:<br>
                > Hello Manila Team,<br>
                ><br>
                > We identified use cases for Manila during an
                internal workshop<br>
                > with our operators. I would like to share them with
                you and<br>
                > update the wiki [1] since it seems to be outdated.<br>
                ><br>
                > Before that I would like to gather feedback and you
                might help me<br>
                > with identifying things that aren’t implemented
                yet.<br>
                ><br>
                > Our list:<br>
                ><br>
                >  1.) Create a share and use it in a tenant<br>
                >      Initial creation of a shared storage volume
                and assign it to several VM’s<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    This is the basic use case for Manila and I hope it's obvious that
    this works.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                >  2.) Assign an preexisting share to a VM with
                Manila<br>
                >      Import an existing Share with data and it to
                several VM’s in case of<br>
                >      migrating an existing production - services to
                Openstack.<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Covered above.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                >  3.) External consumption of a share<br>
                >      Accommodate and provide mechanisms for
                last-mile consumption of shares by<br>
                >      consumers of the service that aren't mediated
                by Nova.<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Depending on how you look at this, it either already works or it's
    out of scope for Manila. Now that we're looking at mount automation
    we may be more involved in this area, but nothing about Manila
    prevents the use of shares by something other than nova.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                >  4.) Cross Tenant sharing<br>
                >      Coordinate shares across tenants<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    As above, this is considered out of scope, but we believe it's easy
    to make this work with no changes to Manila.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                >  5.) Detach a share and don’t destroy data
                (deactivate)<br>
                >      Share is flagged as inactive and data are not
                destroyed for later<br>
                >      usage or in case of legal requirements.<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Can't this be achieved by simply removing all access? By default,
    the shares manila creates are not accessible to anyone. Access must
    be granted explicitly.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                >  6.) Unassign and delete data of a share<br>
                >      Destroy entire share with all data and free
                space for further usage.<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    This is another core feature that already works.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                >  7.) Resize Share<br>
                >      Resize existing and assigned share on the fly.<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Similar to manage/unmanage, this is very easily to conceptually
    understand, but not always easy to implement, due to the vagaries of
    real storage systems. There are some storage systems that can easily
    do this (such as NetApp) but others would find it quite challenging.
    Interestingly, for those that have difficulty resizing shares,
    resizing larger is often easier than resizing smaller. Cinder has
    made the design choice to support expanding volumes but NOT to
    support shrinking volumes. This is an area where we should consider
    making the resize feature optional, or at least making the shrinking
    optional if we decide to support expanding across the board.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                >  8.) Copy existing share<br>
                >      Copy existing share between different storage
                technologies<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Is this an analog for the cinder migrate feature? Hopefully it's
    obvious that anyone can copy a share to another share with the "cp
    -ar" command from a host that's connected to both shares. For
    copying across technologies, I suspect you can't do much better than
    this. For copying within the same family of backends, we already
    have snapshot and create-share-from-snapshot, and we could add
    optimized migration paths if we did implement a manila-managed
    migration feature.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPnpNOVMXydY5vhdPLg8n1OgoYwR051iZCQu9QcCwzYjm141VA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                > Regards<br>
                > Marc<br>
                > Deutsche Telekom<br>
                ><br>
                > [1]: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/usecases"
                  target="_blank">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/usecases</a><br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                > _______________________________________________<br>
                > OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev"
                  target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                ><br>
                > --<br>
                > Kind Regards<br>
                > Valeriy Ponomaryov<br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://www.mirantis.com" target="_blank">www.mirantis.com</a><br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:vponomaryov@mirantis.com">vponomaryov@mirantis.com</a><br>
                > _______________________________________________<br>
                > OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev"
                  target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                _______________________________________________<br>
                OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev"
                  target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div class="gmail_signature">
          <div dir="ltr">Kind Regards<br>
            Valeriy Ponomaryov<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.mirantis.com"
              target="_blank">www.mirantis.com</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:vponomaryov@mirantis.com" target="_blank">vponomaryov@mirantis.com</a><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>
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</pre>
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