<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Ian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think we need to understand how these VRRP and HSRP will work and where it used. What is NFV problem domain also ..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">VRRP: is used to provide the redundancy for L2 network, where those routers are connected to Last mile L2 devices/L2 network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Since L2 network are stateless, Active entity going down and standby entity talking control is simple.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">HSRP: is proprietary protocol anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here we are also talking about NFV and its redundancy is for L3 network also . (Routing /Signaling protocol redundancy)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For routing protocols “Active Routing Entity” always wants to have control over ‘Standby Routing Entity’ so that Active is under the control of the network/Standby.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If VRRP kind of approach is issued for ‘L3 Routing Redundancy’, each Active and Standby will be running as independently which is not good model and it will
not provide the five-9 redundancy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In order to provide the 99.99999 redundancy at L3 network/routing NFV elements it is required to run Active and Standby Entity, where Standby will be under
the control of Active. VRRP will not be good option for this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Then it is required to run as I mentioned .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I hope you got it .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks & regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Keshava<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Ian Wells [mailto:ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 01, 2014 4:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Go read about HSRP and VRRP. What you propose is akin to turning off one physical switch port and turning on another when you want to switch from an active physical server to a standby, and this is not how it's done in practice; instead,
you connect the two VMs to the same network and let them decide which gets the primary address.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 28 October 2014 10:27, A, Keshava <<a href="mailto:keshava.a@hp.com" target="_blank">keshava.a@hp.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Hi Alan and
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> Salvatore,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Thanks for response and I also agree we need to take small steps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">However I have below points to make.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">It is very important how the Service VM needs will be deployed w.r.t HA.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">As per current discussion, you are proposing something like below kind of deployment for Carrier
Grade HA.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Since there is a separate port for Standby-VM also, then the corresponding standby-VM interface address
should be globally routable also. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Means it may require the Standby Routing protocols to advertise its interface as Next-HOP for prefix
it routes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">However external world should not be aware of the standby-routing running in the network.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="336" height="305" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01CFF770.BF467FA0">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="129" height="59" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.png@01CFF770.BF467FA0"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Instead if we can think of running Standby on same stack with Passive port, ( as shown below) then
external world will be unaware of the standing Service Routing running.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">This may be something very basic requirement from Service-VM (NFV HA perspective) for Routing/MPLS/Packet
processing domain. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">I am brining this issue now itself, because you are proposing to change the basic framework of
packer delivering to VM’s.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">(Of course there may be other mechanism of supporting redundancy, however it will not be as efficient
as that of handing at packet level). </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="327" height="422" id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image003.png@01CFF770.BF467FA0"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Thanks & regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Keshava</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Alan Kavanagh [mailto:<a href="mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com" target="_blank">alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:48 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Salvatore</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Inline below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Salvatore Orlando [<a href="mailto:sorlando@nicira.com" target="_blank">mailto:sorlando@nicira.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> October-28-14 12:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">Keshava,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">I think the thread is not going a bit off its stated topic - which is to discuss the various proposed approaches to vlan trunking.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">Regarding your last post, I'm not sure I saw either spec implying that at the data plane level every instance attached to a trunk will be implemented as a different network stack.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">AK</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"> Agree</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">Also, quoting the principle earlier cited in this thread - </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> "make the easy stuff easy and the hard stuff possible" - I would say that unless five 9s is a minimum
requirement for a NFV application, we might start worrying about it once we have the bare minimum set of tools for allowing a NFV application over a neutron network.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">AK</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"> five 9’s is a 100% must requirement for NFV, but lets ensure we don’t mix up what the underlay
service needs to guarantee and what openstack needs to do to ensure this type of service. Would agree, we should focus more on having the right configuration sets for onboarding NFV which is what Openstack needs to ensure is exposed then what is used underneath
guarantee the 5 9’s is a separate matter.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">I think Ian has done a good job in explaining that while both approaches considered here address trunking for NFV use cases, they propose alternative implementations which can be leveraged in different way by NFV applications. I do not see
now a reason for which we should not allow NFV apps to leverage a trunk network or create port-aware VLANs (or maybe you can even have VLAN aware ports which tap into a trunk network?)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">AK</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"> Agree, I think we can hammer this out once and for all in Paris…….this feature has been lingering
too long.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">We may continue discussing the pros and cons of each approach - but to me it's now just a matter of choosing the best solution for exposing them at the API layer. At the control/data plane layer, it seems to me that trunk networks are pretty
much straightforward. VLAN aware ports are instead a bit more convoluted, but not excessively complicated in my opinion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">AK</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"> My thinking too Salvatore, lets ensure the right elements are exposed at API Layer, I would also
go a little further to ensure we get those feature sets to be supported into the Core API (another can of worms discussion but we need to have it).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">Salvatore</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA">On 28 October 2014 11:55, A, Keshava <<a href="mailto:keshava.a@hp.com" target="_blank">keshava.a@hp.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Pl find my reply ..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">keshava</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Alan Kavanagh [mailto:<a href="mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com" target="_blank">alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 28, 2014 3:35 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please find some additions to Ian and responses below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">/Alan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> A, Keshava [<a href="mailto:keshava.a@hp.com" target="_blank">mailto:keshava.a@hp.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> October-28-14 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Hi,</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Pl fine the reply for the same.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Regards,</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">keshava</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Ian Wells [<a href="mailto:ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk" target="_blank">mailto:ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in">
This all appears to be referring to trunking ports, rather than anything else, so I've addressed the points in that respect.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
On 28 October 2014 00:03, A, Keshava <<a href="mailto:keshava.a@hp.com" target="_blank">keshava.a@hp.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">How many Trunk ports can be created ?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
Why would there be a limit?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Will there be any Active-Standby concepts will be there ?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
I don't believe active-standby, or any HA concept, is directly relevant. Did you have something in mind?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">For the NFV kind of the scenario, it is very much required to run the ‘Service VM’ in Active and Standby Mode.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
We have a different view on this, the “application runs as a pair” of which the application either runs in active-active or active standby…this has nothing to do with HA, its down to the application and how its provisioned and configured via Openstack. So
agree with Ian on this.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Standby is more of passive entity and will not take any action to external network. It will be passive consumer of the packet/information.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Why would we need to care?</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">In that scenario it will be very meaningful to have</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:11.55pt">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">“Active port – connected to “Active Service VM”.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:11.55pt">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">“Standby port – connected to ‘Standby Service VM’. Which will turn Active when old Active-VM goes down ?</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:11.55pt">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Cant you just have two VM’s and then via a controller decide how to address MAC+IP_Address control…..FYI…most NFV Apps have that built-in today.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Let us know others opinion about this concept.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Perhaps
I am miss reading this but I don’t understand what this would provide as opposed to having two VM’s instantiated and running, why does Neutron need to care about the port state between these two VM’s? Similarly its better to just have 2 or more VM’s up and
the application will be able to address when failover occurs/requires. Lets keep it simple and not mix up with what the apps do inside the containment.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Keshava:
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Since this is solution is more for Carrier Grade NFV Service VM, I have below points to make.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Let’s us say Service-VM running is BGP or BGP-VPN or ‘MPLS + LDP + BGP-VPN’.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">When such kind of carrier grade service are running, how to provide the Five-9 HA ?</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">In my opinion,
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> Both (Active,/Standby) Service-VM to hook same underlying OpenStack infrastructure stack (br-ext->br-int->qxx-> VMa)
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">However ‘active VM’ can hooks to ‘active-port’ and ‘standby VM’ hook to ‘passive-port’ with in same stack.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Instead if Active and Standby VM hooks to 2 different stack (br-ext1->br-int1
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#70AD47">à</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">qxx1-> VM-active) and (br-ext2->br-int2->qxx2-> VM-Standby) can those Service-VM
achieve the 99.99999 reliability ? </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> Yes I may be thinking little complicated way from open-stack perspective..</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> 2.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Is it possible to configure multiple IP address configured on these ports ?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
Yes, in the sense that you can have addresses per port. The usual restrictions to ports would apply, and they don't currently allow multiple IP addresses (with the exception of the address-pair extension).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">In case IPv6 there can be multiple primary address configured will this be supported ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
No reason why not - we're expecting to re-use the usual port, so you'd expect the features there to apply (in addition to having multiple sets of subnet on a trunking port).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> 3.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">If required can these ports can be aggregated into single one dynamically ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
That's not really relevant to trunk ports or networks. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> 4.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Will there be requirement to handle Nested tagged packet on such interfaces ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
For trunking ports, I don't believe anyone was considering it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks & Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Keshava</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Ian Wells [mailto:<a href="mailto:ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk" target="_blank">ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 27, 2014 9:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
On 25 October 2014 15:36, Erik Moe <<a href="mailto:erik.moe@ericsson.com" target="_blank">erik.moe@ericsson.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Then I tried to just use the trunk network as a plain pipe to the L2-gateway and connect to normal Neutron networks. One issue is that the L2-gateway will bridge the networks, but
the services in the network you bridge to is unaware of your existence. This IMO is ok then bridging Neutron network to some remote network, but if you have an Neutron VM and want to utilize various resources in another Neutron network (since the one you sit
on does not have any resources), things gets, let’s say non streamlined.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
Indeed. However, non-streamlined is not the end of the world, and I wouldn't want to have to tag all VLANs a port is using on the port in advance of using it (this works for some use cases, and makes others difficult, particularly if you just want a native
trunk and are happy for Openstack not to have insight into what's going on on the wire).
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Another issue with trunk network is that it puts new requirements on the infrastructure. It needs to be able to handle VLAN tagged frames. For a VLAN based network it would be
QinQ.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in">
Yes, and that's the point of the VLAN trunk spec, where we flag a network as passing VLAN tagged packets; if the operator-chosen network implementation doesn't support trunks, the API can refuse to make a trunk network. Without it we're still in the situation
that on some clouds passing VLANs works and on others it doesn't, and that the tenant can't actually tell in advance which sort of cloud they're working on.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in">
Trunk networks are a requirement for some use cases independent of the port awareness of VLANs. Based on the maxim, 'make the easy stuff easy and the hard stuff possible' we can't just say 'no Neutron network passes VLAN tagged packets'. And even if we did,
we're evading a problem that exists with exactly one sort of network infrastructure - VLAN tagging for network separation - while making it hard to use for all of the many other cases in which it would work just fine.<br>
<br>
In summary, if we did port-based VLAN knowledge I would want to be able to use VLANs without having to use it (in much the same way that I would like, in certain circumstances, not to have to use Openstack's address allocation and DHCP - it's nice that I can,
but I shouldn't be forced to).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My requirements were to have low/no extra cost for VMs using VLAN trunks compared to normal ports, no new bottlenecks/single point of failure. Due to this and previous issues I
implemented the L2 gateway in a distributed fashion and since trunk network could not be realized in reality I only had them in the model and optimized them away.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
Again, this is down to your choice of VLAN tagged networking and/or the OVS ML2 driver; it doesn't apply to all deployments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But the L2-gateway + trunk network has a flexible API, what if someone connects two VMs to one trunk network, well, hard to optimize away.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in">
That's certainly true, but it wasn't really intended to be optimised away.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Anyway, due to these and other issues, I limited my scope and switched to the current trunk port/subport model.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The code that is for review is functional, you can boot a VM with a trunk port + subports (each subport maps to a VLAN). The VM can send/receive VLAN traffic. You can add/remove
subports on a running VM. You can specify IP address per subport and use DHCP to retrieve them etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
I'm coming to realise that the two solutions address different needs - the VLAN port one is much more useful for cases where you know what's going on in the network and you want Openstack to help, but it's just not broad enough to solve every problem. It may
well be that we want both solutions, in which case we just need to agree that 'we shouldn't do trunk networking because VLAN aware ports solve this problem' is not a valid argument during spec review.<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
Ian.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in">
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>