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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please find some additions to Ian and responses below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">/Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> A, Keshava [mailto:keshava.a@hp.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> October-28-14 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Pl fine the reply for the same.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">keshava<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Ian Wells [<a href="mailto:ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk">mailto:ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">This all appears to be referring to trunking ports, rather than anything else, so I've addressed the points in that respect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">On 28 October 2014 00:03, A, Keshava <<a href="mailto:keshava.a@hp.com" target="_blank">keshava.a@hp.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Hi,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">1.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">How many Trunk ports can be created ?
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Why would there be a limit?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Will there be any Active-Standby concepts will be there ?
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">I don't believe active-standby, or any HA concept, is directly relevant. Did you have something in mind?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">For the NFV kind of the scenario, it is very much required to run the ‘Service VM’ in Active and Standby Mode.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
We have a different view on this, the “application runs as a pair” of which the application either runs in active-active or active standby…this has nothing to do with HA, its down to the application and how its provisioned and configured via Openstack. So
agree with Ian on this.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Standby is more of passive entity and will not take any action to external network. It will be passive consumer of
the packet/information.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Why would we need to care?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">In that scenario it will be very meaningful to have<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:11.55pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">“Active port – connected to “Active Service VM”.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:11.55pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">“Standby port – connected to ‘Standby Service VM’. Which will turn Active when old Active-VM
goes down ?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:11.55pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Cant you just have two VM’s and then via a controller decide how to address MAC+IP_Address control…..FYI…most NFV Apps have that built-in today.</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#5B9BD5">Let us know others opinion about this concept.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AK</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Perhaps
I am miss reading this but I don’t understand what this would provide as opposed to having two VM’s instantiated and running, why does Neutron need to care about the port state between these two VM’s? Similarly its better to just have 2 or more VM’s up and
the application will be able to address when failover occurs/requires. Lets keep it simple and not mix up with what the apps do inside the containment.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> 2.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Is it possible to configure multiple IP address configured on these ports ?
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Yes, in the sense that you can have addresses per port. The usual restrictions to ports would apply, and they don't currently allow multiple IP addresses (with the exception of the address-pair
extension).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">In case IPv6 there can be multiple primary address configured will this be supported ?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">No reason why not - we're expecting to re-use the usual port, so you'd expect the features there to apply (in addition to having multiple sets of subnet on a trunking port).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> 3.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">If required can these ports can be aggregated into single one dynamically ?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">That's not really relevant to trunk ports or networks.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> 4.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#70AD47">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47">Will there be requirement to handle Nested tagged packet on such interfaces ?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">For trunking ports, I don't believe anyone was considering it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#70AD47"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks & Regards,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Keshava</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Ian Wells [mailto:<a href="mailto:ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk" target="_blank">ijw.ubuntu@cack.org.uk</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 27, 2014 9:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] [nfv] VM-based VLAN trunking blueprints</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">On 25 October 2014 15:36, Erik Moe <<a href="mailto:erik.moe@ericsson.com" target="_blank">erik.moe@ericsson.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Then I tried to just use the trunk network as a plain pipe to the L2-gateway and connect to normal Neutron networks. One issue is that the L2-gateway will bridge the
networks, but the services in the network you bridge to is unaware of your existence. This IMO is ok then bridging Neutron network to some remote network, but if you have an Neutron VM and want to utilize various resources in another Neutron network (since
the one you sit on does not have any resources), things gets, let’s say non streamlined.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">Indeed. However, non-streamlined is not the end of the world, and I wouldn't want to have to tag all VLANs a port is using on the port in advance of using it (this works for some use cases, and makes others difficult, particularly if you
just want a native trunk and are happy for Openstack not to have insight into what's going on on the wire).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Another issue with trunk network is that it puts new requirements on the infrastructure. It needs to be able to handle VLAN tagged frames. For a VLAN based network
it would be QinQ.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">Yes, and that's the point of the VLAN trunk spec, where we flag a network as passing VLAN tagged packets; if the operator-chosen network implementation doesn't support trunks, the API can refuse to make a trunk network. Without it we're
still in the situation that on some clouds passing VLANs works and on others it doesn't, and that the tenant can't actually tell in advance which sort of cloud they're working on.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">Trunk networks are a requirement for some use cases independent of the port awareness of VLANs. Based on the maxim, 'make the easy stuff easy and the hard stuff possible' we can't just say 'no Neutron network passes VLAN tagged packets'.
And even if we did, we're evading a problem that exists with exactly one sort of network infrastructure - VLAN tagging for network separation - while making it hard to use for all of the many other cases in which it would work just fine.<br>
<br>
In summary, if we did port-based VLAN knowledge I would want to be able to use VLANs without having to use it (in much the same way that I would like, in certain circumstances, not to have to use Openstack's address allocation and DHCP - it's nice that I can,
but I shouldn't be forced to).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My requirements were to have low/no extra cost for VMs using VLAN trunks compared to normal ports, no new bottlenecks/single point of failure. Due to this and previous
issues I implemented the L2 gateway in a distributed fashion and since trunk network could not be realized in reality I only had them in the model and optimized them away.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">Again, this is down to your choice of VLAN tagged networking and/or the OVS ML2 driver; it doesn't apply to all deployments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But the L2-gateway + trunk network has a flexible API, what if someone connects two VMs to one trunk network, well, hard to optimize away.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">That's certainly true, but it wasn't really intended to be optimised away.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Anyway, due to these and other issues, I limited my scope and switched to the current trunk port/subport model.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The code that is for review is functional, you can boot a VM with a trunk port + subports (each subport maps to a VLAN). The VM can send/receive VLAN traffic. You can
add/remove subports on a running VM. You can specify IP address per subport and use DHCP to retrieve them etc.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">I'm coming to realise that the two solutions address different needs - the VLAN port one is much more useful for cases where you know what's going on in the network and you want Openstack to help, but it's just not broad enough to solve every
problem. It may well be that we want both solutions, in which case we just need to agree that 'we shouldn't do trunk networking because VLAN aware ports solve this problem' is not a valid argument during spec review.<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">Ian.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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