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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/23/2014 05:38 PM, Fox, Kevin M
wrote:<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;">I'm interested in how this
relates/conflicts with the TripleO goal of using OpenStack to
deploy OpenStack.<br>
<br>
It looks like (maybe just superficially) that Kubernetes is
simply a combination of (nova + docker driver) = container
schedualer and (heat) = orchestration. They both schedule
containers, will need advanced scheduling like "ensure these two
containers are on different servers (nova ServerGroups),
autoscale resources, hook up things together, have a json
document that describes the desired state, etc... If that's the
case, it seems odd to use an OpenStack competing product to
deploy a competitor of Kubernetes. Two software stacks to learn
how to debug rather then just one.<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
Kevin,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the feedback.<br>
<br>
There are two orthogonal points you address re competitiveness. One
is the deployment program (which Kolla intends to be a part of).
The deployment program includes an implementation (tripleo).
TripleO is focused around using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.
Kolla is focused around using Kubernetes to deploy OpenStack. But
they both fit into the same program, and at some point they may even
be remerged into both using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack. Time
will tell.<br>
<br>
IMO Kubernetes is not competitive with OpenStack. The way in which
the Kolla project uses them is in fact complimentary. In a perfect
world OpenStack's container service (Magnum) + Heat could be used
instead of Kubernetes. The problem with that approach is the
container service for OpenStack is not functional and not integrated
into the release.<br>
<br>
It is indeed true that another software stack must be learned. We
hope to abstract most/all of the differences so the actual
maintenance difference (ie what must be learned) presents a small
learning footprint.<br>
<br>
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cite="mid:1A3C52DFCD06494D8528644858247BF087FFC2@EX10MBOX03.pnnl.gov"
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#000000;font-size: 10pt;">
Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding what Kubernetes is
trying to accomplish though. I'm not trying to stur up trouble
here. I just really want to understand how these two
technologies fit together.<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't see you stirring up trouble :) Essentially this project
proposes an alternative method for deploying OpenStack (ie not using
OpenStack, but using Kubernetes).<br>
<br>
I did run the idea by Robert Collins (current TripleO PTL) first
before we got cracking on the code base. He indicated the approach
was worth experimenting with.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
-steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;">
Thanks,<br>
Kevin<br>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000;
font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF785145"><font size="2"
color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Steven Dake
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sdake@redhat.com">sdake@redhat.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 23, 2014 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [openstack-dev] [all][tripleo] New Project
-> Kolla: Deploy and Manage OpenStack using Kubernetes
and Docker<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div><b><span style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap">Hi folks,</span></b><b
id="docs-internal-guid-a177937b-a45f-e689-c725-e4e1c757c777"
style="font-weight:normal"><b><br>
</b>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
I'm pleased to announce the development of a new
project Kolla which is Greek for glue :). Kolla has a
goal of providing an implementation that deploys
OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker. This project
will begin as a StackForge project separate from the
TripleO/Deployment program code base. Our long term
goal is to merge into the TripleO/Deployment program
rather then create a new program.<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap">Docker is a container technology
for delivering hermetically sealed applications and
has about 620 technical contributors [1]. We intend to
produce docker images for a variety of platforms
beginning with Fedora 20. We are completely open to
any distro support, so if folks want to add new Linux
distribution to Kolla please feel free to submit
patches :)<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<span style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap">Kubernetes at the most basic
level is a Docker scheduler produced by and used
within Google [2]. Kubernetes has in excess of 100
technical contributors. Kubernetes is more then just a
scheduler, it provides additional functionality such
as load balancing and scaling and has a significant
roadmap.<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
The #tripleo channel on Freenode will be used for
Kolla developer and user communication. Even though we
plan to become part of the Deployment program long
term, as we experiment we believe it is best to hold a
separate weekly one hour IRC meeting on Mondays at
2000 UTC in #openstack-meeting [3].<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
This project has been discussed with the current
TripleO PTL (Robert Collins) and he seemed very
supportive and agreed with the organization of the
project outlined above.
</span><span style="font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap">James
Slagle, a TripleO core developer, has kindly offered
to liase between Kolla and the broader TripleO
community.
<br>
</span></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap">I personally feel it is
necessary to start from a nearly empty repository when
kicking off a new project. As a result, there is
limited code in the repository [4] at this time. I
suspect folks will start cranking out a kick-ass
implementation once the Kolla/Stackforge integration
support is reviewed by the infra team [5].<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<span style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap">The initial core team is
composed of Steven Dake, Ryan Hallisey, James Lebocki,
Jeff Peeler, James Slagle, Lars Kellogg-Sedman, and
David Vossel. The core team will be reviewed every 6
weeks to add fresh developers.<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
Please join the core team in designing and inventing
this rockin' new technology!<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
Regards<br>
-steve<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<b>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</b><br>
<span style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><b><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></b></p>
<b>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<span style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap">[1]
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/docker/docker"
target="_blank">
https://github.com/docker/docker</a> [2] <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes"
target="_blank">
https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes</a><br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;
font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap">[3]
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla"
target="_blank">
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla</a>
[4] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow"
target="_blank">
https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow</a>
[5] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/"
target="_blank">
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/</a></span></p>
</b><br>
<span style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial;
color:#000000; background-color:transparent;
font-weight:normal; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; text-decoration:none;
vertical-align:baseline; white-space:pre-wrap"></span><span
style="font-size:15px; font-family:Arial; color:#000000;
background-color:transparent; font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
text-decoration:none; vertical-align:baseline;
white-space:pre-wrap"></span>
</b></div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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