<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/23/2014 07:15 PM, John Griffith
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAPWkaSWSy2yocJYaX2ozK3M66R+kaFGuvf156f3sosOG2B3F-w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:06 PM,
Steven Dake <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sdake@redhat.com" target="_blank">sdake@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
<div>On 09/23/2014 05:38 PM, Fox, Kevin M wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt">I'm
interested in how this relates/conflicts with the
TripleO goal of using OpenStack to deploy
OpenStack.<br>
<br>
It looks like (maybe just superficially) that
Kubernetes is simply a combination of (nova +
docker driver) = container schedualer and (heat) =
orchestration. They both schedule containers, will
need advanced scheduling like "ensure these two
containers are on different servers (nova
ServerGroups), autoscale resources, hook up things
together, have a json document that describes the
desired state, etc... If that's the case, it seems
odd to use an OpenStack competing product to
deploy a competitor of Kubernetes. Two software
stacks to learn how to debug rather then just one.<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span> Kevin,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the feedback.<br>
<br>
There are two orthogonal points you address re
competitiveness. One is the deployment program (which
Kolla intends to be a part of). The deployment program
includes an implementation (tripleo). TripleO is
focused around using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.
Kolla is focused around using Kubernetes to deploy
OpenStack. But they both fit into the same program, and
at some point they may even be remerged into both using
OpenStack to deploy OpenStack. Time will tell.<br>
<br>
IMO Kubernetes is not competitive with OpenStack. The
way in which the Kolla project uses them is in fact
complimentary. In a perfect world OpenStack's container
service (Magnum) + Heat could be used instead of
Kubernetes. The problem with that approach is the
container service for OpenStack is not functional and
not integrated into the release.<br>
<br>
It is indeed true that another software stack must be
learned. We hope to abstract most/all of the
differences so the actual maintenance difference (ie
what must be learned) presents a small learning
footprint.<span class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt">
Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding what
Kubernetes is trying to accomplish though. I'm not
trying to stur up trouble here. I just really want
to understand how these two technologies fit
together.<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span> I don't see you stirring up trouble :)
Essentially this project proposes an alternative method
for deploying OpenStack (ie not using OpenStack, but
using Kubernetes).<br>
<br>
I did run the idea by Robert Collins (current TripleO
PTL) first before we got cracking on the code base. He
indicated the approach was worth experimenting with.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>So I think it's a cool idea and worth looking at as you
have said. But I'm very confused by your statements, it
seems to me that there's a misunderstanding, either in
what Triple'O is, or something else entirely.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Given that Triple'O stands for Openstack On Openstack
I'm not sure how you separate the OpenStack piece from the
project? Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not saying one
way is better than the other etc. just that the
statements here are a bit confusing tome.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
John,<br>
<br>
There is a deployment program - tripleo is just one implementation.
We went through this with Heat and various projects that want to
extend heat (eg Murano) and one big mistake I think Murano folks
made was not figuring out where there code would go prior to writing
it. I'm only making a statement as to where I think it should
belong.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAPWkaSWSy2yocJYaX2ozK3M66R+kaFGuvf156f3sosOG2B3F-w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>Also, it seems REALLY strange that Triple'O hasn't even
graduated and my limited understanding is that it still
has a ways to go and we're proposing alternate
implementations of it. Very odd IMO.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Our goal is deploying OpenStack using containers. TripleO could
have this same goal, but at the present it does not (I could be
mistaken here, please feel free to correct if I am incorrect). It
rather prefers to deploy on bare metal. We are just focusing on
this particular point, (openstack in containers on bare metal). I
spoke with Robert for quite awhile about integration time and we
were both in agreement early or late integration is not a concern
for us - getting something working for containers seemed more
compelling.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAPWkaSWSy2yocJYaX2ozK3M66R+kaFGuvf156f3sosOG2B3F-w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>That being said, I'd love to see some details on what
you have in mind here. I don't necessarily see why it
needs to be an "OpenStack Project" per-say as opposed to a
really cool Open Source Project for deploying OpenStack
containers (or whatever it is exactly that you have in
mind). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
It doesn't have to necessarily go into the deployment program. My
main motivation at this point for using stackforge and attaching it
to OpenStack is I desperately want to use the OpenStack workflow
since our workflow rocks!<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
-steve<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAPWkaSWSy2yocJYaX2ozK3M66R+kaFGuvf156f3sosOG2B3F-w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
Regards<br>
-steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="">
<div
style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt">
Thanks,<br>
Kevin<br>
<div style="font-family:Times New
Roman;color:#000000;font-size:16px">
<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000"
face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Steven Dake [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sdake@redhat.com"
target="_blank">sdake@redhat.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 23, 2014
3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing
List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [openstack-dev]
[all][tripleo] New Project -> Kolla:
Deploy and Manage OpenStack using Kubernetes
and Docker<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div><b><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Hi
folks,</span></b><b
style="font-weight:normal"><b><br>
</b>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
I'm pleased to announce the development
of a new project Kolla which is Greek
for glue :). Kolla has a goal of
providing an implementation that deploys
OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker.
This project will begin as a StackForge
project separate from the
TripleO/Deployment program code base.
Our long term goal is to merge into the
TripleO/Deployment program rather then
create a new program.<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Docker
is a container technology for delivering
hermetically sealed applications and has
about 620 technical contributors [1]. We
intend to produce docker images for a
variety of platforms beginning with
Fedora 20. We are completely open to any
distro support, so if folks want to add
new Linux distribution to Kolla please
feel free to submit patches :)<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Kubernetes
at the most basic level is a Docker
scheduler produced by and used within
Google [2]. Kubernetes has in excess of
100 technical contributors. Kubernetes
is more then just a scheduler, it
provides additional functionality such
as load balancing and scaling and has a
significant roadmap.<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
The #tripleo channel on Freenode will be
used for Kolla developer and user
communication. Even though we plan to
become part of the Deployment program
long term, as we experiment we believe
it is best to hold a separate weekly one
hour IRC meeting on Mondays at 2000 UTC
in #openstack-meeting [3].<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
This project has been discussed with the
current TripleO PTL (Robert Collins) and
he seemed very supportive and agreed
with the organization of the project
outlined above. </span><span
style="font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">James
Slagle, a TripleO core developer, has
kindly offered to liase between Kolla
and the broader TripleO community. <br>
</span></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">I
personally feel it is necessary to start
from a nearly empty repository when
kicking off a new project. As a result,
there is limited code in the repository
[4] at this time. I suspect folks will
start cranking out a kick-ass
implementation once the Kolla/Stackforge
integration support is reviewed by the
infra team [5].<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The
initial core team is composed of Steven
Dake, Ryan Hallisey, James Lebocki, Jeff
Peeler, James Slagle, Lars
Kellogg-Sedman, and David Vossel. The
core team will be reviewed every 6 weeks
to add fresh developers.<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
Please join the core team in designing
and inventing this rockin' new
technology!<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
Regards<br>
-steve<br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<b>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</b><br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><b><span
style="font-weight:normal"></span></b></p>
<b>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[1]
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/docker/docker"
target="_blank">
https://github.com/docker/docker</a>
[2] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes"
target="_blank">
https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes</a><br>
</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[3]
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla"
target="_blank">
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla</a>
[4] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow"
target="_blank">
https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow</a>
[5] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/"
target="_blank">
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/</a></span></p>
</b><br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span>
</b></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</span><span class="">
<pre>_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>
</pre>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev"
target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>