<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal">Kyle, Adam,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Based on this thread Kyle is suggesting the follow moving
forward plan: </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">1) We incubate Neutron LBaaS V2 in the “Neutron”
incubator “and freeze LBaas V1.0”</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
<span style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">2) “Eventually”
It graduates into a project under the networking program.</span><br>
<span style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">3) “At
that point” We deprecate Neutron LBaaS v1.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">The words in “xx“ are works I added to make
sure I/We understand the whole picture.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">And as Adam mentions: Octavia != LBaaS-v2.
Octavia is a peer to F5 / Radware / A10 / etc<span class=""> </span></span><b>appliances</b> which is a
definition I agree with BTW.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">What I am trying to now understand is how we
will move Octavia into the new LBaaS project? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">If we do it later rather than develop Octavia
in tree under the new incubated LBaaS project when do we plan to bring it in-tree
from Stackforge? Kilo? Later? When LBaaS is a separate project under the Networking program?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">What are the criteria to bring a driver into
the LBaaS project and what do we need to do to replace the existing reference
driver? Maybe adding a software driver to LBaaS source tree is less of a
problem than converting a whole project to an OpenStack project.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Again I am open to both directions I just want to make sure
we understand why we are choosing to do one or the other and that our decision is based on data and not emotions. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am assuming that keeping Octavia in Stackforge will
increase the velocity of the project and allow us more freedom which is
goodness. We just need to have a plan to make it part of the Openstack LBaaS
project.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards Susanne</p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Adam Harwell <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adam.harwell@rackspace.com" target="_blank">adam.harwell@rackspace.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
Only really have comments on two of your related points:</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">[Susanne] </span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">To me Octavia is a driver so it is very hard to me to think of it as a standalone project. It needs the new Neutron
LBaaS v2 to function which is why I think of them together. This of course can change since we can add whatever layers we want to Octavia.</span></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font face="Arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px">[Adam] I guess I've always shared Stephen's viewpoint — Octavia != LBaaS-v2. Octavia is a peer to F5 / Radware / A10 / etc
</span><span style="font-size:13px;font-weight:bold">appliances</span><span style="font-size:13px">, not to an Openstack API layer like Neutron-LBaaS. It's a little tricky to clearly define this difference in conversation, and I have noticed that quite
a few people are having the same issue differentiating. In a small group, having quite a few people not on the same page is a bit scary, so maybe we need to really sit down and map this out so everyone is together one way or the other.</span></font></div>
<div class="">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">[Susanne] Ok now I am confused… But I agree with you that it need to focus on our use cases. I remember us discussing Octavia being the refenece implementation for OpenStack LBaaS (whatever that
is). Has that changed while I was on vacation?</span></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<br>
</div>
</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
[Adam] I believe that having the Octavia "driver" (not the Octavia codebase itself, technically) become the reference implementation for Neutron-LBaaS is still the plan in my eyes. The Octavia Driver in Neutron-LBaaS is a separate bit of code from the actual
Octavia project, similar to the way the A10 driver is a separate bit of code from the A10 appliance. To do that though, we need Octavia to be fairly close to fully functional. I believe we can do this because even though the reference driver would then require
an additional service to run, what it requires is still fully-open-source and (by way of our plan) available as part of OpenStack core.</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>--Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><a href="https://keybase.io/rm_you" target="_blank">https://keybase.io/rm_you</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<br>
</div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Susanne Balle <<a href="mailto:sleipnir012@gmail.com" target="_blank">sleipnir012@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, August 29, 2014 9:19 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><div class="">
<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][lbaas][octavia]<br>
</div></div><div><div class="h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Stephen</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">See inline comments.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Susanne</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">-----------------------------------------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Susanne--</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I think you are conflating the difference between "OpenStack incubation" and "Neutron incubator." These are two very
different matters and should be treated separately. So, addressing each one individually:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">"OpenStack Incubation"</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I think this has been the end-goal of Octavia all along and continues to be the end-goal. Under this scenario, Octavia is its own stand-alone project with its own PTL and core developer team, its
own governance, and should eventually become part of the integrated OpenStack release. No project ever starts out as "OpenStack incubated."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[Susanne] I totally agree that the end goal is for Neutron LBaaS to become its own incubated project. I did miss
the nuance that was pointed out by Mestery in an earlier email that if a Neutron incubator project wants to become a separate project it will have to apply for incubation again or at that time. It was my understanding that such a Neutron incubated project
would be grandfathered in but again we do not have much details on the process yet.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">To me Octavia is a driver so it is very hard to me to think of it as a standalone project. It needs the new Neutron
LBaaS v2 to function which is why I think of them together. This of course can change since we can add whatever layers we want to Octavia.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">"Neutron Incubator"</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">This has only become a serious discussion in the last few weeks and has yet to land, so there are many assumptions about this which don't pan out (either because of purposeful design and governance
decisions, or because of how this project actually ends up being implemented from a practical standpoint). But given the inherent limitations about making statements with so many unknowns, the following seem fairly clear from what has been shared so far:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt">·<span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Neutron incubator is the on-ramp for projects which should eventually become a part of Neutron itself.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt">·<span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Projects which enter the Neutron incubator on-ramp should be fairly close to maturity in their final form. I think the intent here is for them to live in incubator for 1 or 2 cycles
before either being merged into Neutron core, or being ejected (as abandoned, or as a separate project).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt">·<span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Neutron incubator projects effectively do not have their own PTL and core developer team, and do not have their own governance.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[Susanne] Ok I missed the last point. In an earlier discussion Mestery implied that an incubated project would have
at least one or two of its own cores. Maybe that changed between now and then.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:29.25pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">In addition we know the following about Neutron LBaaS and Octavia:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:76.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt">·<span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">It's already (informally?) agreed that the ultimate long-term place for a LBaaS solution is probably to be spun out into its own project, which might appropriately live under a yet-to-be-defined
master "Networking" project. (This would make Neutron, LBaaS, VPNaaS, FWaaS, etc. effective "peer" projects under the Networking umbrella.) Since this "Networking" umbrella project has even less defined about it than Neutron incubator, it's impossible to
know whether being a part of Neutron incubator would be of any benefit to Octavia (or, conversely, to Neutron incubator) at all as an on-ramp to becoming part of "Networking." Presumably, Octavia</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">might</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> fit
well under the "Networking" umbrella-- but, again, with nothing defined there it's impossible to draw any reasonable conclusions at this time.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[Susanne] We are in agreement here. This was the reasons we had the ad-hoc meeting in Atlanta so get a feel for hw
people felt if we made Neutron LBaaS its own project and also how we got an operator large scale LBaaS that fit most of our service provider requirements. I am just worried because you keep on talking of Octavia as a standaloe project. To me it is an extension
of Neutron LBaaS or of a new LBaaS …. I do not see us (== me) use Octavia in a non OpenStack context. And yes it is a driver that I am hoping we all expect to become the reference implementation for LBaaS.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:76.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt">·<span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">When the LBaaS component spins out of Neutron, it will more than likely not be Octavia. Octavia is</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">intentionally</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">less
friendly to 3rd party load balancer vendors both because it's envisioned that Octavia would just be another implementation which lives along-side said 3rd party vendor products (plugging into a higher level LBaaS layer via a driver), and because we don't want
to have to compromise certain design features of Octavia to meet the lowest common denominator 3rd party vendor product. (3rd party vendors are welcome, but we will not make design compromises to meet the needs of a proprietary product-- compatibility with
available open-source products and standards trumps this.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[Susanne] Ok now I am confused… But I agree with you that it need to focus on our use cases. I remember us discussing
Octavia being the refenece implementation for OpenStack LBaaS (whatever that is). Has that changed while I was on vacation?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.25in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The end-game for the above point is: In the future I see "Openstack LBaaS" (or whatever the project calls itself) being a separate but complimentary project to Octavia.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:76.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt">·<span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">While its true that we would like Octavia to become the reference implementation for Neutron LBaaS, we are nowhere near being able to deliver on that. Attempting to become a part
of Neutron LBaaS right now is likely just to create frustration (and very little merged code) for both the Octavia and Neutron teams.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[Susanne] Agreed.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">So given that the only code in Octavia right now are a few database migrations, we are very, very far away from being ready for either OpenStack incubation or the Neutron incubator project. I don't
think it's very useful to be spending time right now worrying about either of these outcomes: We should be working on Octavia!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[Susanne] Agreed. You suggested we discuss this on the ML NOW. I wanted to wait until the summit given that we would
have more info on Neutron incubation, etc. I haven’t seen much written down on the Neutron incubator project so most of what we are doing is guessing….</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Please also understand: I realize that probably the reason you're asking this right now is because you have a mandate within your organization to use only "official" OpenStack branded components,
and if Octavia doesn't fall within that category, you won't be able to use it. Of course everyone working on this project wants to make that happen too, so we're doing everything we can to make sure we don't jeopardize that possibility. And there are enough
voices in this project that want that to happen, so I think if we strayed from the path to get there, there would be sufficient clangor over this that it would be hard to miss. But I don't think there's anyone at all at this time that can honestly give you
a promise that Octavia definitely will be incubated and will definitely end up in the integrated OpenStack release.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">If you want to increase the chances of that happening, please help push the project forward!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[Susanne] That is what HP is doing. Remember we were here from the beginning helping change the direction for LBaaS.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Stephen</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"> </p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Stephen Balukoff <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:sbalukoff@bluebox.net" target="_blank">sbalukoff@bluebox.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Susanne--
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think you are conflating the difference between "OpenStack incubation" and "Neutron incubator." These are two very different matters and should be treated separately. So, addressing each one individually:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>"OpenStack Incubation"</b></div>
<div>I think this has been the end-goal of Octavia all along and continues to be the end-goal. Under this scenario, Octavia is its own stand-alone project with its own PTL and core developer team, its own governance, and should eventually become part of the
integrated OpenStack release. No project ever starts out as "OpenStack incubated."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>"Neutron Incubator"</b></div>
<div>This has only become a serious discussion in the last few weeks and has yet to land, so there are many assumptions about this which don't pan out (either because of purposeful design and governance decisions, or because of how this project actually ends
up being implemented from a practical standpoint). But given the inherent limitations about making statements with so many unknowns, the following seem fairly clear from what has been shared so far:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Neutron incubator is the on-ramp for projects which should eventually become a part of Neutron itself.</li><li>Projects which enter the Neutron incubator on-ramp should be fairly close to maturity in their final form. I think the intent here is for them to live in incubator for 1 or 2 cycles before either being merged into Neutron core, or being ejected (as abandoned,
or as a separate project). </li><li>Neutron incubator projects effectively do not have their own PTL and core developer team, and do not have their own governance.</li></ul>
<div>In addition we know the following about Neutron LBaaS and Octavia:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>It's already (informally?) agreed that the ultimate long-term place for a LBaaS solution is probably to be spun out into its own project, which might appropriately live under a yet-to-be-defined master "Networking" project. (This would make Neutron, LBaaS,
VPNaaS, FWaaS, etc. effective "peer" projects under the Networking umbrella.) Since this "Networking" umbrella project has even less defined about it than Neutron incubator, it's impossible to know whether being a part of Neutron incubator would be of any
benefit to Octavia (or, conversely, to Neutron incubator) at all as an on-ramp to becoming part of "Networking." Presumably, Octavia
<i>might</i> fit well under the "Networking" umbrella-- but, again, with nothing defined there it's impossible to draw any reasonable conclusions at this time.
</li><li>When the LBaaS component spins out of Neutron, it will more than likely not be Octavia. Octavia is
<i>intentionally</i> less friendly to 3rd party load balancer vendors both because it's envisioned that Octavia would just be another implementation which lives along-side said 3rd party vendor products (plugging into a higher level LBaaS layer via a driver),
and because we don't want to have to compromise certain design features of Octavia to meet the lowest common denominator 3rd party vendor product. (3rd party vendors are welcome, but we will not make design compromises to meet the needs of a proprietary product--
compatibility with available open-source products and standards trumps this.) </li><li>The end-game for the above point is: In the future I see "Openstack LBaaS" (or whatever the project calls itself) being a separate but complimentary project to Octavia.</li>
<li>While its true that we would like Octavia to become the reference implementation for Neutron LBaaS, we are nowhere near being able to deliver on that. Attempting to become a part of Neutron LBaaS right now is likely just to create frustration (and very
little merged code) for both the Octavia and Neutron teams. </li></ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>So given that the only code in Octavia right now are a few database migrations, we are very, very far away from being ready for either OpenStack incubation or the Neutron incubator project. I don't think it's very useful to be spending time right now worrying
about either of these outcomes: We should be working on Octavia!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please also understand: I realize that probably the reason you're asking this right now is because you have a mandate within your organization to use only "official" OpenStack branded components, and if Octavia doesn't fall within that category, you won't
be able to use it. Of course everyone working on this project wants to make that happen too, so we're doing everything we can to make sure we don't jeopardize that possibility. And there are enough voices in this project that want that to happen, so I think
if we strayed from the path to get there, there would be sufficient clangor over this that it would be hard to miss. But I don't think there's anyone at all at this time that can honestly give you a promise that Octavia definitely will be incubated and will
definitely end up in the integrated OpenStack release.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you want to increase the chances of that happening, please help push the project forward!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Stephen</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Susanne Balle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sleipnir012@gmail.com" target="_blank">sleipnir012@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
I would like to discuss the pros and cons of putting Octavia into the Neutron LBaaS incubator project right away. If it is going to be the reference implementation for LBaaS v 2 then I believe Octavia belong in Neutron LBaaS v2 incubator. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
The Pros:</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* Octavia is in Openstack incubation right away along with the lbaas v2 code. We do not have to apply for incubation later on. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* As incubation project we have our own core and should be able ot commit our code</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* We are starting out as an OpenStack incubated project</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
The Cons:</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* Not sure of the velocity of the project</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* Incubation not well defined.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
If Octavia starts as a standalone stackforge project we are assuming that it would be looked favorable on when time is to move it into incubated status.</div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
Susanne</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<span></span>Stephen Balukoff <br>
Blue Box Group, LLC <br>
<a href="tel:%28800%29613-4305%20x807" value="+18006134305" target="_blank">(800)613-4305 x807</a></font></span></div>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div></span>
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