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<div>Ok, thanks for the clarification. This means that it will not be done automagically as it is today – the tenant will need to create a Neutron port and then pass that through.</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Gary</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Robert Kukura <<a href="mailto:kukura@noironetworks.com">kukura@noironetworks.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, August 5, 2014 at 8:13 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Group Based Policy and the way forward<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/5/14, 11:04 AM, Gary Kotton wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:D006CCF3.1D2B0%25gkotton@vmware.com" type="cite">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div>Is there any description of how this will be consumed by Nova. My concern is this code landing there.</div>
</blockquote>
Hi Gary,<br>
<br>
Initially, an endpoint's port_id is passed to Nova using "nova boot ... --nic port-id=<port-uuid> ...", requiring no changes to Nova. Later, slight enhancements to Nova would allow using commands such as "nova boot ... --nic ep-id=<endpoint-uuid> ..." or "nova
boot ... --nic epg-id=<endpoint-group-uuid> ...".<br>
<br>
-Bob<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D006CCF3.1D2B0%25gkotton@vmware.com" type="cite">
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Gary</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Robert Kukura <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kukura@noironetworks.com">kukura@noironetworks.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>OpenStack List <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, August 5, 2014 at 5:20 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>OpenStack List <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Group Based Policy and the way forward<br>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">On 8/4/14, 4:27 PM, Mark McClain wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:370BE714-2271-4F09-B753-BE9D68778A1C@yahoo-inc.com" type="cite">
All-<br>
<br>
tl;dr<br>
<br>
* Group Based Policy API is the kind of experimentation we be should attempting.<br>
* Experiments should be able to fail fast.<br>
* The master branch does not fail fast.<br>
* StackForge is the proper home to conduct this experiment.<br>
</blockquote>
The disconnect here is that the Neutron group-based policy sub-team that has been implementing this feature for Juno does not see this work as an experiment to gather data, but rather as an important innovative feature to put in the hands of early adopters
in Juno and into widespread deployment with a stable API as early as Kilo.<br>
<br>
The group-based policy BP approved for Juno addresses the critical need for a more usable, declarative, intent-based interface for cloud application developers and deployers, that can co-exist with Neutron's current networking-hardware-oriented API and work
nicely with all existing core plugins. Additionally, we believe that this declarative approach is what is needed to properly integrate advanced services into Neutron, and will go a long way towards resolving the difficulties so far trying to integrate LBaaS,
FWaaS, and VPNaaS APIs into the current Neutron model.<br>
<br>
Like any new service API in Neutron, the initial group policy API release will be subject to incompatible changes before being declared "stable", and hence would be labeled "experimental" in Juno. This does not mean that it is an experiment where to "fail fast"
is an acceptable outcome. The sub-team's goal is to stabilize the group policy API as quickly as possible, making any needed changes based on early user and operator experience.<br>
<br>
The L and M cycles that Mark suggests below to "revisit the status" are a completely different time frame. By the L or M cycle, we should be working on a new V3 Neutron API that pulls these APIs together into a more cohesive core API. We will not be in a position
to do this properly without the experience of using the proposed group policy extension with the V2 Neutron API in production.<br>
<br>
If we were failing miserably, or if serious technical issues were being identified with the patches, some delay might make sense. But, other than Mark's -2 blocking the initial patches from merging, we are on track to complete the planned work in Juno.<br>
<br>
-Bob<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:370BE714-2271-4F09-B753-BE9D68778A1C@yahoo-inc.com" type="cite">
<br>
<br>
Why this email?<br>
---------------<br>
Our community has been discussing and working on Group Based Policy (GBP) for many months. I think the discussion has reached a point where we need to openly discuss a few issues before moving forward. I recognize that this discussion could create frustration
for those who have invested significant time and energy, but the reality is we need ensure we are making decisions that benefit all members of our community (users, operators, developers and vendors).<br>
<br>
Experimentation<br>
----------------<br>
I like that as a community we are exploring alternate APIs. The process of exploring via real user experimentation can produce valuable results. A good experiment should be designed to fail fast to enable further trials via rapid iteration.<br>
<br>
Merging large changes into the master branch is the exact opposite of failing fast.<br>
<br>
The master branch deliberately favors small iterative changes over time. Releasing a new version of the proposed API every six months limits our ability to learn and make adjustments. <br>
<br>
In the past, we’ve released LBaaS, FWaaS, and VPNaaS as experimental APIs. The results have been very mixed as operators either shy away from testing/offering the API or embrace the API with the expectation that the community will provide full API support
and migration. In both cases, the experiment fails because we either could not get the data we need or are unable to make significant changes without accepting a non-trivial amount of technical debt via migrations or draft API support.<br>
<br>
Next Steps<br>
----------<br>
Previously, the GPB subteam used a Github account to host the development, but the workflows and tooling do not align with OpenStack's development model. I’d like to see us create a group based policy project in StackForge. StackForge will host the code and
enable us to follow the same open review and QA processes we use in the main project while we are developing and testing the API. The infrastructure there will benefit us as we will have a separate review velocity and can frequently publish libraries to PyPI.
From a technical perspective, the 13 new entities in GPB [1] do not require any changes to internal Neutron data structures. The docs[2] also suggest that an external plugin or service would work to make it easier to speed development.
<div><br>
End State<br>
---------<br>
APIs require time to fully bake and right now it is too early to know the final outcome. Using StackForge will allow the team to retain all of its options including: merging the code into Neutron, adopting the repository as sub-project of the Network Program,
leaving the project in StackForge project or learning that users want something completely different. I would expect that we'll revisit the status of the repo during the L or M cycles since the Kilo development cycle does not leave enough time to experiment
and iterate.<br>
<br>
<br>
mark<br>
<br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/neutron-specs/tree/specs/juno/group-based-policy-abstraction.rst#n370">http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/neutron-specs/tree/specs/juno/group-based-policy-abstraction.rst#n370</a><br>
[2] <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Nn1HjghAvk2RTPwvltSrnCUJkidWKWY2ckU7OYAVNpo/edit%23slide%3Did.g12c5a79d7_4078&k=oIvRg1%2BdGAgOoM1BIlLLqw%3D%3D%0A&r=eH0pxTUZo8NPZyF6hgoMQu%2BfDtysg45MkPhCZFxPEq8%3D%0A&m=cIUH5RoLkViWURawHObcnSgnma3z8rgd7F6cm454AZA%3D%0A&s=8159972efd976c5b98ebb1ab48249c7a32c90d4ff5d5c23a04d140dc241ab1ae">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Nn1HjghAvk2RTPwvltSrnCUJkidWKWY2ckU7OYAVNpo/edit#slide=id.g12c5a79d7_4078</a>
<div>[3] </div>
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