<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Louis.Fourie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Louis.Fourie@huawei.com" target="_blank">Louis.Fourie@huawei.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Mohammad,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> Agree, the information models for these two proposals are very similar.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">It appears that the ODL model offers some additional flexibility in that direction attributes are<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">attached to Classifiers and Directives rather than Policies in the Openstack model.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Maybe the authors can comment on other differences and their motivation?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Is there any plan to merge these two models and create a common model? Is there a group<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">within OpenStack actively working on this? Will this work be done within OpenStack or OpenDaylight?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> </span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>Yes, we've been having weekly meetings since the Hong Kong Summit on this [1]. Please join us</div>
<div>on IRC if you want. The two models are meant to be pretty much the same, though the ODL models</div><div>are expanded a bit compared to the Neutron models at the moment.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Kyle</div>
<div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron_Group_Policy">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron_Group_Policy</a> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:20.25pt">
<u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>-<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Louis<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> Mohammad Banikazemi [mailto:<a href="mailto:mb@us.ibm.com" target="_blank">mb@us.ibm.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 18, 2014 9:20 PM</span></p><div class=""><br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
</div><b>Cc:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][policy] Integrating network policies and network services<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Louis, We are still working on the details of the new contract based model. To get an idea please refer to the original project google document [1] and look under the section titled
</span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif">Use Cases:
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">3-tier Application with Security Policies
</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">where policies are described through a provider/consumer relationship. The contract model is similar to the model being worked out by a similarly named project in OpenDaylight. You can
find more information on the contract model there [2].</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Best,</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Mohammad</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[1] <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZbOFxAoibZbJmDWx1oOrOsDcov6Cuom5aaBIrupCD9E/edit#heading=h.gebyoou6khks" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZbOFxAoibZbJmDWx1oOrOsDcov6Cuom5aaBIrupCD9E/edit#heading=h.gebyoou6khks</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[2] <a href="https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Application_Policy_Plugin" target="_blank">
https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Application_Policy_Plugin</a></span><br>
<br>
<img border="0" width="16" height="16" src="cid:image001.gif@01CF435A.D4D8F660" alt="Inactive hide details for "Louis.Fourie" ---03/18/2014 03:23:05 PM---Mohammad, Can you share details on the contract-based po"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(66,66,130)">"Louis.Fourie"
---03/18/2014 03:23:05 PM---Mohammad, Can you share details on the contract-based policy model?</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(95,95,95)">From:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">"Louis.Fourie" <<a href="mailto:Louis.Fourie@huawei.com" target="_blank">Louis.Fourie@huawei.com</a>></span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(95,95,95)">To: </span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>,
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(95,95,95)">Date:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">03/18/2014 03:23 PM</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(95,95,95)">Subject:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron][policy] Integrating network policies and network services</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<hr size="2" width="100%" noshade style="color:rgb(128,145,165)" align="left">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Mohammad,</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> Can you share details on the contract-based policy model?</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">- Louis</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> Mohammad Banikazemi [<a href="mailto:mb@us.ibm.com" target="_blank">mailto:mb@us.ibm.com</a>]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, March 14, 2014 3:18 PM<b><br>
To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<b><br>
Subject:</b> [openstack-dev] [neutron][policy] Integrating network policies and network services</span><br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">We have started looking at how the Neutron advanced services being defined and developed right now can be used within the Neutron policy framework we are building. Furthermore, we have been
looking at a new model for the policy framework as of the past couple of weeks. So, I have been trying to see how the services will fit in (or can be utilized by) the policy work in general and with the new contract-based model we are considering in particular.
Some of the I like to discuss here are specific to the use of service chains with the group policy work but some are generic and related to service chaining itself.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
If I understand it correctly, the proposed service chaining model requires the creation of the services in the chain without specifying their insertion contexts. Then, the service chain is created with specifying the services in the chain, a particular provider
(which is specific to the chain being built) and possibly source and destination insertion contexts.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
1- This fits ok with the policy model we had developed earlier where the policy would get defined between a source and a destination policy endpoint group. The chain could be instantiated at the time the policy gets defined. (More questions on the instantiation
below marked as 1.a and 1.b.) How would that work in a contract based model for policy? At the time a contract is defined, it's producers and consumers are not defined yet. Would we postpone the instantiation of the service chain to the time a contract gets
a producer and at least a consumer? </span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
1.a- It seems to me, it would be helpful if not necessary to be able to define a chain without instantiating the chain. If I understand it correctly, in the current service chaining model, when the chain is created, the source/destination contexts are used
(whether they are specified explicitly or implicitly) and the chain of services become operational. We may want to be able to define the chain and postpone its creation to a later point in time.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
1.b-Is it really possible to stand up a service without knowing its insertion context (explicitly defined or implicitly defined) in all cases? For certain cases this will be ok but for others, depending on the insertion context or other factors such as the
requirements of other services in the chain we may need to for example instantiate the service (e.g. create a VM) at a specific location that is not known when the service is created. If that may be the case, would it make sense to not instantiate the services
of a chain at any level (rather than instantiating them and mark them as not operational or not routing traffic to them) before the chain is created? (This leads to question 3 below.)</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
2- With one producer and multiple consumers, do we instantiate a chain (meaning the chain and the services in the chain become operational) for each consumer? If not, how do we deal with using the same source/destination insertion context pair for the provider
and all of the consumers?</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
3- For the service chain creation, I am sure there are good reasons for requiring a specific provider for a given chain of services but wouldn't it be possible to have a generic "chain" provider which would instantiate each service in the chain using the required
provider for each service (e.g., firewall or loadbalancer service) and with setting the insertion contexts for each service such that the chain gets constructed as well? I am sure I am ignoring some practical requirements but is it worth rethinking the current
approach? </span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
Best,</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
Mohammad</span><tt><span style="font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________</span></tt><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><br>
<tt>OpenStack-dev mailing list</tt><br>
<tt><a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a></tt><br>
<tt><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></tt></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>