<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Steve Baker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sbaker@redhat.com" target="_blank">sbaker@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>

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    <div>On 24/02/14 08:44, Anne Gentle wrote:<br>
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          <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:23 PM,
            Steve Baker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sbaker@redhat.com" target="_blank">sbaker@redhat.com</a>></span>
            wrote:<br>
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                    <div>On 22/02/14 06:42, Mike Spreitzer wrote:<br>
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                    <blockquote type="cite"><tt><font>Zane Bitter <a href="mailto:zbitter@redhat.com" target="_blank"><zbitter@redhat.com></a>
                          wrote on 02/21/2014 12:23:05 PM:<br>
                          <br>
                          > Yeah, we are overloading the term
                          'developer' here, since that section <br>
                          > contains both information that is only
                          useful to developers working on <br>
                          > Heat itself, and information useful to
                          users developing templates.</font></tt> <br>
                      <br>
                      <tt><font>At the highest levels of the OpenStack
                          documentation, a distinction is made between
                          cloud users, cloud admins, and developers.
                           Nobody coming at this from the outside would
                          look under developer documentation for what a
                          cloud user --- even one writing a Heat
                          template --- needs to know: cloud users are
                          obviously application developers and deployers
                          and operators.</font></tt> <br>
                      <tt><font><br>
                          > I'm not sure if this is forced because of
                          an OpenStack-wide assumption <br>
                          > that there is only API documentation and
                          developer documentation?<br>
                          > <br>
                          > We ought to split these up and make the
                          difference clear if we can.<br>
                        </font></tt> <br>
                      <tt><font>Forget the "if".  If we don't want to
                          have to mentor every new user, we need decent
                          documentation.</font></tt> <br>
                      <br>
                      <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1281691" target="_blank"><tt><font>https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1281691</font></tt></a>
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                <p>I think the heat template guide will always use
                  sphinx since it autogenerates the resource reference
                  section by introspecting the heat codebase.</p>
                <p>Having it as a subdirectory of the developer guide
                  was always meant to be a temporary solution, I see a
                  couple of options:</p>
                <p>1. allow the heat repo to generate 2 separate sphinx
                  documentation sets, one developer docs and one
                  template guide<br>
                  2. move the template guide to openstack-manuals (or
                  some other manual repo)</p>
                <p>Doing 2 will mean that repo would need to depend on
                  heat, and ideally we could still have a docs job to
                  see what documentation is generated for any heat
                  gerrit review</p>
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            <div>Hi Steve, </div>
            <div>I hesitate to embrace option 1 because the Sphinx
              output would still live rather separately so I don't know
              how to provide a better experience to template developers
              that way.</div>
            <div><br>
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            <div>Now that we have a reliable <a href="http://git.openstack.org" target="_blank">git.openstack.org</a> we
              often embed source from other project's repositories in
              openstack-manuals and the api-site repositories. Also
              realize the entire Configuration Reference is
              programmatically pulled from five OpenStack repositories
              already.</div>
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    If you could point me at some examples of where things are being
    pulled in from code repos into manuals then I'll take a look.
    Another repo which would be useful to pull from is heat-templates,
    which would allow us to store canonical example templates in one
    place, but include them in manuals.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It would be great to pull from heat-templates files directly. </div><div><br></div><div>In the xml source you'd use something like line 13 of doc/common/section_keystone-sample-conf-files.xml:</div>

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<p class=""><span class=""><xi:include</span><span class=""> parse</span><span class="">=</span>"text"<span class=""> href</span><span class="">=</span>"<a href="http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/plain/etc/keystone.conf.sample">http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/plain/etc/keystone.conf.sample</a>"<span class="">/></span></p>

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            <div>It would be great to add a chapter about template
              authoring to an existing guide. The template developers,
              are they cloud admins or end users more likely? Or maybe
              Mike, Quiming, or Zane has another idea -- do you think it
              has to be a separate guide completely?</div>
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    I would say end users. If you're doing anything OpenStack with CLIs
    or Horizon then you should consider automating that by authoring a
    Heat template.<br>
    <br>
    Feel free to suggest an existing manual the template guide could be
    added too. Currently we have mostly reference docs[1] but I'm hoping
    to spend a bunch of post-feature-freeze time to start some how-to
    recipe content (although that is what I said during havana freeze
    too)<div class=""><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's great, we have an End User Guide at <a href="http://docs.openstack.org/user-guide/content/">http://docs.openstack.org/user-guide/content/</a>.</div>

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            <div>Another idea is that we're putting together a new API
              and SDK landing page in the coming month, would this user
              be most likely to visit that?</div>
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    I think not, Heat is a layer above API/SDK.<div class=""><br>
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            <div>Do you have a resource in mind to put this together? </div>
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    I was hoping to spend some time just writing content rather than
    porting to docbook and reorganizing repos, but it looks like the
    time has come.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>I have a few ideas for potential resources to help you, let's chat tomorrow on IRC. I think this placement in the end user guide makes a lot of sense -- Dashboard, CLI users would definitely want to get started with heat templates.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Anne</div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">


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    [1] <a href="http://docs.openstack.org/developer/heat/template_guide/" target="_blank">http://docs.openstack.org/developer/heat/template_guide/</a><br>
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