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<div>On Jan 21, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Alexei Kornienko <<a href="mailto:alexei.kornienko@gmail.com">alexei.kornienko@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Hello,<br>
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I would like to end this requirements talk cause it doesn't make any sense in term of python clients.<br>
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<div>Initially the discussion was about "many clients projects with separate requirements" VS "single client project with single requirements list".<br>
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<div>Then I suspect we’re at an impasse; I do plan on proceeding with a new wiki page and blueprint for a unified client, SDK (backend) for end users. I for one do not think things are as clear cut as you make them - and the +1s to the unified client thoughts
clearly express the discontent with the current structure & packaging.</div>
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<div>At that moment we should have stop and actually open requirements lists for python clients.
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Basically all clients have the same requirement (cause they all do the same stuff - sending HTTP requests K.O.)<br>
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<div>There is absolutely no difference in the situation of many clients vs single client.<br>
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<div>Answering another question about "user only needs X (keystone) and we install package with clients for all openstack services":<br>
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<div>Size of keystone client (and any other client I suppose) is ~300Kb I don't think that it's a big difference for the user to install package that is ~300Kb or ~10Mb (unless we are using openstack from Android).<br>
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<div>It is when most openstack clouds don’t just run keystone. Or nova, or swift. Or when each client acts, smells and behaves differently. It matters a LOT when you’re trying to write applications on top of a mature openstack deployment.</div>
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<div>From the user perspective I think it's much easier to use client with "everything included" rather than try to google for client package for some rarely used service.<br>
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<div>I have actual experience here as a person running a cloud and supporting end-users & developers: the overwhelming customer feedback (paid and unpaid (exploratory users)) is that the 22+ clients are confusing, difficult to use, prone to error. There are
two ways of resolving this if you’re in my shoes - or in a role where the primary focus is not openstack developers or builders; the first is you coordinate work focusing on developer & end user experience upstream, working with openstack and the teams to
come up with something that benefits everyone, or, you fork, and build the openstack equivalent to boto / awscli so you can provide a unified “one obvious way to consume openstack clouds”.</div>
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<div>jesse</div>
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<div>Regards,<br>
Alexei<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">2014/1/21 Sean Dague <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sean@dague.net" target="_blank">sean@dague.net</a>></span><br>
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<div class="im">On 01/21/2014 11:54 AM, Renat Akhmerov wrote:<br>
><br>
> On 17 Jan 2014, at 22:00, Jamie Lennox <<a href="mailto:jamielennox@redhat.com">jamielennox@redhat.com</a><br>
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<div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jamielennox@redhat.com">jamielennox@redhat.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
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>> (I don't buy the problem with large amounts of dependencies, if you<br>
>> have a meta-package you just have one line in requirements and pip<br>
>> will figure the rest out.)<br>
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> +1<br>
><br>
> Renat Akhmerov<br>
> @ Mirantis Inc.<br>
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Man, where were you then when we had to spend 3 weeks unwinding global<br>
requirements in the gate because pip was figuring it out all kinds of<br>
wrong, and we'd do things like uninstall and reinstall<br>
python-keystoneclient 6 times during an install. Because after that<br>
experience, I'm very anti "pip will figure the rest out".<br>
<br>
Because it won't, not in python, where we're talking about libraries<br>
that are in the global namespace, where python can only have 1 version<br>
of a dependency installed.<br>
<br>
If the the solution is every openstack project should install a venv for<br>
all it's dependencies to get around this issue, then we're talking a<br>
different problem (and a different architecture from what we've been<br>
trying to do). But I find the idea of having 12 copies of<br>
python-keystone client installed on my openstack environment to be<br>
distasteful.<br>
<br>
So come spend a month working on requirements updates in OpenStack<br>
gate... and if you still believe "pip will figure it out", well you are<br>
a braver man than I. :)<br>
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-Sean<br>
<br>
--<br>
Sean Dague<br>
Samsung Research America<br>
<a href="mailto:sean@dague.net">sean@dague.net</a> / <a href="mailto:sean.dague@samsung.com">
sean.dague@samsung.com</a><br>
<a href="http://dague.net/" target="_blank">http://dague.net</a><br>
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