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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/16/2014 06:15 PM, Jesse Noller
wrote:<br>
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<div>On Jan 16, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Alexei Kornienko <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:alexei.kornienko@gmail.com">alexei.kornienko@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/16/2014 05:25 PM, Jesse
Noller wrote:<br>
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<div>On Jan 16, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Joe Gordon <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joe.gordon0@gmail.com">joe.gordon0@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at
9:45 AM, Jesse Noller <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jesse.noller@rackspace.com"
target="_blank">jesse.noller@rackspace.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div>On Jan 16, 2014, at 5:53 AM,
Chmouel Boudjnah <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chmouel@enovance.com"
target="_blank">chmouel@enovance.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu,
Jan 16, 2014 at 12:38 PM,
Chris Jones <span dir="ltr">
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cmsj@tenshu.net"
target="_blank">cmsj@tenshu.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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Once a common library is in
place, is there any
intention to (or resistance
against) collapsing the
clients into a single
project or even a single
command (a la busybox)?</blockquote>
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<div class="gmail_extra">that's
what openstackclient is here for
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient"
target="_blank">
https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient</a><br>
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<div>After speaking with people working on
OSC and looking at the code base in
depth; I don’t think this addresses what
Chris is implying: OSC wraps the
individual CLIs built by each project
today, instead of the inverse: a common
backend that the individual CLIs can
wrap - the latter is an important
distinction as currently, building a
single binary install of OSC for say,
Windows is difficult given the
dependency tree incurred by each of the
wrapped CLIs, difference in
dependencies, structure, etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, wrapping a series of
inconsistent back end Client classes /
functions / methods means that the layer
that presents a consistent user
interface (OSC) to the user is made more
complex juggling
names/renames/commands/etc. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the inverted case of what we have
today (single backend); as a developer
of user interfaces (CLIs, Applications,
Web apps (horizon)) you would be able
to:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>from openstack.common.api import
Auth</div>
</div>
<div>from openstack.common.api import
Compute</div>
<div>from openstack.common.util import
cli_tools</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>my_cli = cli_tools.build(…)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>def my_command(cli):</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>compute
= Compute(Auth(cli.tentant…,
connect=True))</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>compute.list_flavors()</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This would mean that *even if the
individual clients needed or wanted to
keep their specific CLIs, they would be
able to use a not “least common
denominator” back end (each service can
have a rich
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://common.api.compute.py/"
target="_blank">common.api.compute.py</a>
or api.compute/client.py and extend
where needed. However tools like horizon
/ openstackclient can choose not to
leverage the “power user/operator/admin”
components and present a simplified user
interface.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’m working on a wiki page +
blueprint to brainstorm how we could
accomplish this based off of what work
is in flight today (see doug’s linked
blueprint) and sussing out a layout /
API strawman for discussion. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some of the additions that came out
of this email threads and others:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Common backend should provide /
offer caching utilities </div>
<div>2. Auth retries need to be handled by
the auth object, and each sub-project
delegates to the auth object to manage
that.</div>
<div>3. Verified Mocks / Stubs / Fakes
must be provided for proper unit
testing </div>
</div>
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<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am happy to see this work being done,
there is definitely a lot of work to be done
on the clients.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This blueprint sounds like its still being
fleshed out, so I am wondering what the value
is of the current patches <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/common-client-library-2,n,z">https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/common-client-library-2,n,z</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Those patches mainly sync cliutils and
apiutils from oslo into the assorted clients.
But if this blueprint is about the python API
and not the CLI (as that would be the
openstack-pythonclient), why sync in apiutils?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also does this need to go through
oslo-incubator or can this start out as a
library? Making this a library earlier on will
reduce the number of patches needed to get 20+
repositories to use this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
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<div>Alexei and others have at least started the first
stage of a rollout - the blueprint(s) needs additional
work, planning and discussion, but his work is a good
first step (reduce the duplication of code) although I
am worried that the libraries and APIs / namespaces will
need to change if we continue these discussions which
potentially means re-doing work.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we take a step back, a rollout process might be:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1: Solidify the libraries / layout / naming
conventions (blueprint)</div>
<div>2: Solidify the APIs exposed to consumers (blueprint)</div>
<div>3: Pick up on the common-client-library-2 work which
is primarily a migration of common code into oslo today,
into the structure defined by 1 & 2</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, I sort of agree: moving / collapsing code now
might be premature. I do strongly agree it should stand
on its own as a library rather than an oslo incubator
however. We should start with a single, clean namespace
/ library rather than depending on oslo directly.</div>
</blockquote>
Knowing usual openstack workflow I'm afraid that #1,#2 with
a waterfall approach may take years to be complete.
<br>
And after they'll be approved it will become clear that this
architecture is already outdated.<br>
We try to use iterative approach for clients refactoring.<br>
We started our work from removing code duplication because
it already gives a direct positive effect on client
projects.<br>
If you can show us better way of moving forward please help
us by uploading patches on this topic.<br>
<br>
Talk is cheap. Show me the code. (c) Linus<br>
<br>
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<div>I don’t disagree and I’m pretty sure I and others have
already thanked you for starting this but have expressed
concerns about the API / layout - and many of the patches on
that blueprint are still pending review due to those concerns.
I’m not suggesting we need to spend the next six years
designing it, I’m arguing for some basic design. From the
current blueprint it is unclear where things will live, where
it will live and how does it benefit everyone.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I’d like to work *with* you to expand the blueprints to
address some basic design / namespacing / issues and not jump
straight into refactoring 22+ command line tools without a
clear idea of the the desired layout and design.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The problem with defining design is that I don't know a convenient
way of doing it cause UML, etherpad, blueprint's description are not
sufficient to do this clearly.<br>
We try to use approach that I call "continuous refactoring" so as
long as something can be improved we improve it.<br>
Our basic goal is to move towards SOLID principles and as long every
new commit brings us one step closer to them I consider that overall
design is improving.<br>
I've already posted here a draft idea of what we would like to see
in the end:<br>
<pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre>1) Transport layer would handle all transport related stuff - HTTP, JSON
encoding, auth, caching, etc.
2) Model layer (Resource classes, BaseManager, etc.) will handle data
representation, validation
3) API layer will handle all project specific stuff - url mapping, etc.
(This will be imported to use client in other applications)
4) Cli level will handle all stuff related to cli mapping - argparse,
argcomplete, etc.</pre></blockquote>
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<div>jesse</div>
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