<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</head>
<body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Edmund Troche <<a href="mailto:edmund.troche@us.ibm.com">edmund.troche@us.ibm.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:08 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [heat][horizon]Heat UI related requirements & roadmap<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size="2" face="sans-serif">You bring up a good point Thomas. I think some of the discussions are mixing template and stack perspectives, they are not the same thing, stack == instance of a template. There likely is room for "tagging" stacks, all under
the control of the user and meant for user consumption, vs the long going discussion on template-level metadata. This may be yet another use case ;-)<br>
</font><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>+1 yes, thanks Edmund for clarifying we are definitely talking about separate use cases now.</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div>
<p><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="219" bgcolor="#5C81A7" colspan="2" valign="middle"><font size="2" color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial"><b> Edmund Troche</b></font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font></td>
<td width="225" bgcolor="#5C81A7" valign="middle">
<div align="right"><font size="2" color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial"><b><i>Senior Software Engineer
</i></b></font></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="444" colspan="3"><a href="http://www.ibm.com/"><font size="1" color="#777777" face="Arial"><u>IBM</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><font size="1" color="#777777" face="Arial">Software Group | 11501 Burnet Rd. | Austin, TX 78758</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font></td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="444" colspan="3" valign="middle"><font size="1" face="Wingdings">(</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><font size="1" color="#6260A1" face="Arial">+1.512.286.8977</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><font size="3" face="Wingdings">)</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><font size="1" color="#6260A1" face="Arial">T/L
363.8977</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><font size="1" face="Wingdings">*</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><a href="mailto:edmund.troche@us.ibm.com"><font size="1" color="#6260A1" face="Arial"><u>edmund.troche@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><font size="1" face="Wingdings">7</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><font size="1" color="#6260A1" face="Arial">+1.512.286.8977</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<img width="16" height="16" src="cid:1__=09BBF6A3DFCE46798f9e8a93df938@us.ibm.com" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Thomas Spatzier ---11/27/2013 11:00:58 AM---Thanks, that clarified the use case a bit. Bot looking at"><font size="2" color="#424282" face="sans-serif">Thomas
Spatzier ---11/27/2013 11:00:58 AM---Thanks, that clarified the use case a bit. Bot looking at the use case now, isn't this stack tagging</font><br>
<br>
<font size="1" color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif">From: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Thomas Spatzier <<a href="mailto:thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com">thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com</a>></font><br>
<font size="1" color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif">To: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">"OpenStack Development Mailing List \(not for usage questions\)" <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>,
</font><br>
<font size="1" color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif">Date: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">11/27/2013 11:00 AM</font><br>
<font size="1" color="#5F5F5F" face="sans-serif">Subject: </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [openstack-dev] [heat][horizon]Heat UI related requirements & roadmap</font><br>
</p>
<hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade="" style="color:#8091A5; ">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><font size="2">Thanks, that clarified the use case a bit. Bot looking at the use case now,<br>
isn't this stack tagging instead of template tagging?<br>
I.e. assume that for each stack a user creates, he/she can assign one or<br>
more tags so you can do better queries to find stacks later?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Thomas<br>
<br>
Tim Schnell <<a href="mailto:tim.schnell@RACKSPACE.COM">tim.schnell@RACKSPACE.COM</a>> wrote on 27.11.2013 16:24:18:<br>
> From: Tim Schnell <<a href="mailto:tim.schnell@RACKSPACE.COM">tim.schnell@RACKSPACE.COM</a>><br>
> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>,<br>
> Date: 27.11.2013 16:28<br>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [heat][horizon]Heat UI related<br>
> requirements & roadmap<br>
><br>
> Ok, I just re-read my example and that was a terrible example. I'll try<br>
> and create the user story first and hopefully answer Clint's and Thomas's<br>
> concerns.<br>
><br>
><br>
> If the only use case for adding keywords to the template is to help<br>
> organize the template catalog then I would agree the keywords would go<br>
> outside of heat. The second purpose for keywords is why I think they<br>
> belong in the template so I'll cover that.<br>
><br>
> Let's assume that an end-user of Heat has spun up 20 stacks and has now<br>
> requested help from a Support Operator of heat. In this case, the<br>
end-user<br>
> did not have a solid naming convention for naming his stacks, they are<br>
all<br>
> named "tim1", "tim2", etc© And also his request to the Support Operator<br>
> was really vague, like "My Wordpress stack is broken."<br>
><br>
> The first thing that the Support Operator would do, would be to pull up<br>
> end-user's stacks in either Horizon or via the heat client api. In both<br>
> cases, at the moment, he would then have to either stack-show on each<br>
> stack to look at the description of the stack or ask the end-user for a<br>
> stack-id/stack-name. This currently gets the job done but a better<br>
> experience would be for stack-list to already display some keywords about<br>
> each stack so the Support Operator would have to do less digging.<br>
><br>
> In this case the end-user only has one Wordpress stack so he would have<br>
> been annoyed if the Support Operator requested more information from him.<br>
> (Or maybe he has more than one wordpress stack, but only one currently in<br>
> CREATE_FAILED state).<br>
><br>
> As a team, we have already encountered this exact situation just doing<br>
> team testing so I imagine that others would find value in a consistent<br>
way<br>
> to determine at least a general purpose of a stack, from the stack-list<br>
> page. Putting the stack-description in the stack-list table would take up<br>
> too much room from a design standpoint.<br>
><br>
> Once keywords has been added to the template then part of the blueprint<br>
> would be to return it with the stack-list information.<br>
><br>
> The previous example I attempted to explain is really more of an edge<br>
> case, so let's ignore it for now.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Tim<br>
><br>
> On 11/27/13 3:19 AM, "Thomas Spatzier" <<a href="mailto:thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com">thomas.spatzier@de.ibm.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> >Excerpts from Tim Schnell's message on 27.11.2013 00:44:04:<br>
> >> From: Tim Schnell <<a href="mailto:tim.schnell@RACKSPACE.COM">tim.schnell@RACKSPACE.COM</a>><br>
> >> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"<br>
> >> <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>,<br>
> >> Date: 27.11.2013 00:47<br>
> >> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [heat][horizon]Heat UI related<br>
> >> requirements & roadmap<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><snip><br>
> ><br>
> >> That is not the use case that I'm attempting to make, let me try<br>
again.<br>
> >> For what it's worth I agree, that in this use case "I want a mechanism<br>
> >>to<br>
> >> tag particular versions of templates" your solution makes sense and<br>
will<br>
> >> probably be necessary as the requirements for the template catalog<br>
start<br>
> >> to become defined.<br>
> >><br>
> >> What I am attempting to explain is actually much simpler than that.<br>
> >>There<br>
> >> are 2 times in a UI that I would be interested in the keywords of the<br>
> >> template. When I am initially browsing the catalog to create a new<br>
> >>stack,<br>
> >> I expect the stacks to be searchable and/or organized by these<br>
keywords<br>
> >> AND when I am viewing the stack-list page I should be able to sort my<br>
> >> existing stacks by keywords.<br>
> >><br>
> >> In this second case I am suggesting that the end-user, not the<br>
Template<br>
> >> Catalog Moderator should have control over the keywords that are<br>
defined<br>
> >> in his instantiated stack. So if he does a Stack Update, he is not<br>
> >> committing a new version of the template back to a git repository, he<br>
is<br>
> >> just updating the definition of the stack. If the user decides that<br>
the<br>
> >> original template defined the keyword as "wordpress" and he wants to<br>
> >> revise the keyword to "tims wordpress" then he can do that without the<br>
> >> original template moderator knowing or caring about it.<br>
> >><br>
> >> This could be useful to an end-user who's business is managing client<br>
> >> stacks on one account maybe. So he could have "tims wordpress", "tims<br>
> >> drupal", "angus wordpress", "angus drupal" the way that he updates the<br>
> >> keywords after the stack has been instantiated is up to him. Then he<br>
can<br>
> >> sort or search his stacks on his own custom keywords.<br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> >For me this all sounds like really user specific tagging, so something<br>
> >that<br>
> >should really be done outside the template file itself in the template<br>
> >catalog service. The use case seems about a role that organizes<br>
templates<br>
> >(or later stacks) by some means, which is fine, but then everything is a<br>
> >decision of the person organizing the templates, and not necessarily a<br>
> >decision of the template author. So it would be cleaner to keep this<br>
> >tagging outside the template IMO.<br>
> ><br>
> >> I agree that the template versioning is a separate use case.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Tim<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> >><br>
> >> >>Tim<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> >>_______________________________________________<br>
> >> >>OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
> >> >><a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> >> >></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> >_______________________________________________<br>
> >> >OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
> >> ><a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> >> ></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> >> </font></tt><tt><font size="2"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >_______________________________________________<br>
> >OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
> ><a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> ></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> </font></tt><tt><font size="2"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><br>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
</font></tt><tt><font size="2"><a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><br>
</font></tt><br>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>