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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/15/2013 02:33 PM, Salvatore
Orlando wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Apologies for forking the thread.</div>
</blockquote>
Not at all. You do want you need to do.<br>
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cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I think this is probably the last post with some content
which might be useful for a discussion which does not involve
fashion police.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I'm all for content for useful discussion.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
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<div><br>
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<div>On another note, I've seen my name is in the list of the
required attendees. To be fair and honest I'm not any more
required than any other member of the neutron core team.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
When I asked Mark McClain who needed to be there, he told me
yourself, Sean Dague and Matt Trenish. I was going on the best
information I had at the time. I also had to select a time and
location with the 4 of you in two different rooms in less than 2
hours.<br>
<br>
I hope all the Neutron cores attend. I also agree with the
sentiment. I picture a circle, every contributor an equal distance
from the same focus.<br>
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cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
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<div><br>
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<div>I've also added some comments inline.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 15 November 2013 17:16, Anita
Kuno <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anteaya@anteaya.info" target="_blank">anteaya@anteaya.info</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div class="im">On 11/15/2013 11:01 AM, Kyle Mestery
(kmestery) wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">On
Nov 15, 2013, at 9:36 AM, Russell Bryant <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rbryant@redhat.com" target="_blank">rbryant@redhat.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">On
11/13/2013 11:10 AM, Anita Kuno wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Neutron
Tempest code sprint<br>
<br>
In the second week of January in Montreal,
Quebec, Canadathere will be a<br>
Neutron Tempest code sprint to improve the
status of Neutron tests in<br>
Tempest and to add new tests.<br>
</blockquote>
First off, I think anything regarding putting more
effort into this is<br>
great. However, I *beg* the Neutron team not to
wait until this week to<br>
make significant progress.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
Well I have an item on the Neutron team meeting for next
week: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Neutron_Tempest_.28anteaya.29"
target="_blank">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Neutron_Tempest_.28anteaya.29</a><br>
I would enjoy having your presence there and hope you
join in on the discussion, Russell.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is completely true, and I expect that the ideal
goal would be that by the day that the sprint comes,
parallel testing with tenant isolation and coverage gaps
are covered.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Do we have any blueprints or etherpads giving some guidance on
implementing this expectation?<br>
I do like the phrase "parallel testing", music to my ears.<br>
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cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
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<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>Regarding specifically the sprint, I reckon it is an
event with lot of potential for building a community and
solving actual problems, but allow me to say that, from
my little experience, developer productivity often don't
add up. By this I mean that if you put 10 developers in
a room, and each of them has a productivity of one, the
outcome is likely to be less than 10.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Do you feel there is a better way to meet the goals the sprint is
designed to meet?<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
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<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am sure that Neutron devs will work with Tempest
devs, with the help of Nova devs (we need that too as
one of main pain points is the neutronv2 implementation
of nova's network api) to reach to a stage where we are
comfortable with gate stability and coverage by the
beginning of this Montreal sprint.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I do hope so. Part of what I hope comes out of this is a through
understanding of what tempest is and how to write tempest tests,
since there seems to be a need for some teaching on these points
within neutron. If there is an expectation that the gate is stable
and covered by the beginning of the sprint, perhaps we need to look
at ensuring tempest information is disseminated through neutron
prior to the sprint.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
To be clear, IMO, this is already painfully late.
It's one of the<br>
largest items blocking deprecation of nova-network
and moving forward<br>
with Neutron. This spring is just a couple weeks
before icehouse-2.<br>
Come i2, mid-cycle, we're going to have make a
call on whether or not<br>
nova-network deprecation seems likely. If not, we
really can't wait<br>
around and I will probably propose un-freezing
nova-network.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As also stated during the design summit, this goes
beyond parity, stability, and migration. It is a
question that should probably be asked to users rather
than developers, but is probably off-topic in this
thread.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I think we need to continue to discuss what we should work on at the
code sprint and prior to it. If you and Russell have different
opinions on what should be accomplished, I think now is the time to
have that discussion.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div class="im">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
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</blockquote>
</div>
Yes, the surprising thing for me is this is the feeling
within the rest of the OpenStack community and seems to
be not acknowledged in anyway so far in my journeys
within Neutron. Thank you for stating this so clearly,
Russell. I hope people are able to hear you when you say
it.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I personally do not feel this way; even if this is
just my personal opinion.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I am so very glad to hear that. And your personal opinion counts.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>We did a bad job in fixing test coverage during
Havana; the PTL has acknowledged it, and is taking the
necessary steps to put things right. I think there has
been a good response from the community, in terms of
people willing to volunteer, and in terms of support for
the plan of requiring verifiability for all plugins.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I agree. The plan for 3rd party testing is clearly written with good
goals and a plan for enforcement of same. I think it was very
heartening to see that posted.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
It was actually for this reason that I decided to do
what I am doing, to my best ability to do it. Others are
prepared to deprecate Neutron now and I needed to
demonstrate to myself that I did everything I could to
address the situation before I voiced my opinion.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
So we shall see what comes of it.
<div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">The
event will be vendor neutral. We will talk to
each other based on<br>
who we are and our interests, not based on who
signs our paycheque. If<br>
folks arrive with logoed shirts (I don't know
which logos are work logos<br>
and which aren't, so I will request no logos
please) I will issue you a<br>
white T-shirt to wear. We need to work
collaboratively to effectlvely<br>
make progress during the code sprint.<br>
</blockquote>
I'm all for promoting a culture of individuals and
vendor neutrality.<br>
However, I think this requirement is bizarre and
unnecessary. From a<br>
practical standpoint, many people (myself
included) get a ton of shirts<br>
at conferences, so a lot of my clothes have tech
company logos. If you<br>
actually get people to show up to an event
dedicated to working on<br>
testing, who cares what shirt they have on?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
Actually symbols are very important and carry subtle
messages that the unconcious part of the brain
interprets but may not push to conciousness. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://uanews.org/story/ua-study-your-brain-sees-things-you-don-t"
target="_blank">http://uanews.org/story/ua-study-your-brain-sees-things-you-don-t</a><br>
<br>
Logos are powerful for a reason, and when I talk to you,
Russell, I appreciate being able to look at you and hear
you without a logo creating interference with my
communication with you.
<div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
"I will issue you a white T-shirt"?! Are you
serious?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
Yes.
<div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Someone
at the summit choose not to wear footwear at the
event. If you<br>
want to come to the code sprint please plan on
wearing appropriate<br>
footwear in the public areas at the code sprint.
For two reasons:<br>
1. It will be cold.<br>
2. The event is meant to facilitate mutual
respect between us to<br>
increase communication, both at the event and
afterwards. I feel wearing<br>
appropriate footwear supports this goal.<br>
</blockquote>
It's Winter in Canada... I'd be quite surprised if
someone went without<br>
shoes.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
I was surprised someone showed up in public areas at the
summit without them.
<div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
I love the idea, but this stuff is just a big
turn-off.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
That is a shame. It would be wonderful if you could
attend. But you are the only one who can decide and I
respect your opinion.
<div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Huge
+1 from me as well. The sprint and Tempest work is
great, the<br>
clothing requirements are going to make people not
take this seriously.<br>
I feel these were not necessary.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
I wish that were so. I have witnessed nothing in my time
in the Neutron design summit sessions or in the IRC
channel to indicate they aren't.<br>
<br>
Funny this is such a big pain point.<br>
<br>
Thanks for weighing in, I do hope to keep the
conversation going.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Anita.
<div class="">
<div class="h5"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Salvatore</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PS: Can I wear my favourite football club shirt?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Since we have agreed that we need to focus on what is good for the
future of Neutron [0] and focusing on clothing is secondary to that,
you can wear what you like.<br>
<br>
Thanks Salvatore,<br>
Anita.<br>
<br>
[0]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019403.html">http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019403.html</a><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGR=i3jtUfgYyN8Rk3YqQuy4cQ=W55bm0wfZ4M9NutQS6E89uQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> </div>
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<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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