<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Jul 10, 2013, at 5:01 AM, Joe Gordon <<a href="mailto:joe.gordon0@gmail.com">joe.gordon0@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Mark McLoughlin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:markmc@redhat.com" target="_blank">markmc@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">On Tue, 2013-07-02 at 17:48 +0000, Jeremy Stanley wrote:<br>
> On 2013-07-01 15:10:26 -0700 (-0700), Mark Washenberger wrote:<br>
> [...]<br>
> > The talk about permanence confuses me, unless we mean that more<br>
> > permanent values are overridden by less permanent ones.<br>
> [...]<br>
><br>
> I think the "permanence" counter argument (which I don't agree with,<br>
> just recounting it for completeness) was that command-line arguments<br>
> may be embedded in init scripts by some distributions and then<br>
> administrators would be surprised when their modifications to the<br>
> configuration files weren't respected.<br>
<br>
Yes, that was what the "permanence" discussion related to. The example I<br>
was thinking of was '--logfile /var/log/nova/api.log' which doesn't seem<br>
like a ridiculous thing to pass via the command line.<br>
<br>
Since we've clearly moved on, I'm not sure replaying old points is very<br>
constructive, but you have hit on an interesting topic, so ... :)<br>
<br>
> Ultimately, however, any time<br>
> distribution defaults which could be set in packaged configuration<br>
> are instead being set with the service command-line in packaged init<br>
> scripts, I would tend to just consider that a (serious) packaging<br>
> bug and certainly nothing we should be catering to as a project.<br>
<br>
That's very ... stringent. But I do mostly agree. Distros shouldn't<br>
stick a tonne of distro defaults on the command line of services.<br>
<br>
The two principles that matter IMHO are:<br>
<br>
1) users should be able to override defaults<br>
<br>
2) if a user deletes their config file, they get back to the defaults<br>
<br>
Something we've experimented with in Red Hat OpenStack is to put distro<br>
defaults in e.g. /usr/share/nova/nova-dist.conf. You can see some of the<br>
thinking here, for example:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=887334#c4" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=887334#c4</a><br>
<br>
The alternative approach would be to patch the code with distro<br>
defaults.<br>
<br>
Now, you could say that distros shouldn't need to modify the defaults.<br>
That's fair, but I don't think there's anything too crazy in our distro<br>
defaults either:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://github.com/redhat-openstack/openstack-nova/blob/master/nova.conf" target="_blank">https://github.com/redhat-openstack/openstack-nova/blob/master/nova.conf</a><br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I took a look at those and most of the values you have are already the current defaults. The only one that stands out is:</div><div><br></div><div><pre style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Courier,monospace;font-size:12px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:18px">
<div class="" id="LC8" style="padding-left:10px">force_dhcp_release = True</div><div><br></div><div>So my question here, is do you think 'force_dhcp_release = False' is a sane default or should the default be True like you have it?</div></pre></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I would like to see this as True for sure. Historically it was was false because it requires a special binary from dnsmasq that wasn't packaged by the distros.</div><div><br></div><div>Vish</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><pre style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Courier,monospace;font-size:12px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:18px">
</pre></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Anyone got other thoughts on how distros should handle this?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Mark.<br>
<br>
<br>
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