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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Since I will be gone next week, and I
know you want to move on with this, just wanted to confirm that I
am OK with Henry's approach.<br>
<br>
I would like to suggest that we contemplate doing to inheritance
mechanism at assignment time as opposed to token creation time as
an optimization. What would this mean?<br>
<br>
Say a domain role-assignement implies a project role assignment.
When a new project is created, we generate the role-assignments
for the users that have domain entries explicitly at this point.
<br>
<br>
The objection I assume would be along the lines of "how are you
sure you are going to get it right" and "that is going to generate
a lot more entries in the database" which are both valid
concerns. However, token creation is far, far more common than
changes to role assigments, and we should focus on optimizing for
this use case. In addition, it will remove the need for
"effective" role assignments.<br>
<br>
One concern would be with "if we drop the inheritance
relationship, what do we do with all those people that have that
role already." We would have the choice of removing the
role-assignments then, or of leaving them in place, and having to
manually remove them. We would have no means to distinguish
between explicit and implicit role assignments. I could entertain
arguments on either approach, or even an additional parameter
specifying what to do upon removal of the domain level assignment.<br>
<br>
<br>
I don't see this as "make-or-break" but rather an implementation
detail worth considering now.<br>
<br>
This would be consistent with the token revocation approach, where
we make the effort to revoke all tokens at the time of the event.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/13/2013 09:49 AM, Henry Nash wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D5E50DE7-B02A-4D9B-83B2-E6150931426B@linux.vnet.ibm.com"
type="cite">Thanks Guang - I have added responses, as well as
tried to articulate the conceptual differences that actually
underpin all these approaches. This is in the intro in the
etherpad, but reproduced below:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="magicdomid553" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">Before looking at
the possible solutions, it is worth pointing out that the
differences in the various options boil down to how we
approach two conceptual issues:</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid555" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; ">
</div>
<div id="magicdomid1191" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">1) How should we
specify an assignment that applies to more than one entity?
There are two conceptual approaches:</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1190" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">- Use Inheritance,
based on some grouping, hopefully one that already exists
(e.g. use the fact that all projects are owned by a domain)</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid888" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">- Use a logical
expression (e.g. "apply to "*" )</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1129" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">The differences in
these two concepts gets amplified if we want to be able, in
the future, to further segregate role assignmnets based on
some other subset (e.g. either hierachy of domains, or
'apply to domains matching the string "army*" )</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1131" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; ">
</div>
<div id="magicdomid1251" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">2) Should you
specify the "scope" of the assignment separately from the
assignment?</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1720" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">- Keeping them
separate is considered good practice by our experts in this
field, and this can be done by either storing the scope in
another entity (e.g. the role def) or separatly in the
assignment call. </span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1723" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">- If you don't keep
them separate, then obviously it is all lumped into the
assignment call.</span></div>
<div id="magicdomid1624" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; ">
</div>
<div id="magicdomid1719" class="ace-line" style="margin: 0px;
padding: 0px 1px 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 16px; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; "><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">The proposed
solutions only differ fundamentally in how the approach
these concepts (with consequences in the use cases below),
the rest is just semantics.</span></div>
<div><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); "><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
class="author-a-gz68zyz85zz75zbaz122zrz88z8z87zz82z4z68zp"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px 0px; cursor: auto;
background-color: rgb(169, 217, 121); ">Henry</span></div>
<div>
<div>On 12 Jun 2013, at 22:46, Yee, Guang wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Added my comments in the etherpad.<br>
<br>
----<br>
<br>
I really think role assignment merits its own CRUD. Since
there's a new API<br>
to get the role assignments.<br>
<br>
GET /role_assignments<br>
<br>
why not just have the complete API set to facilitate role
assignments? That<br>
way, we have one unified API for role<br>
assignment, as oppose to multiple APIs as exist today.<br>
<br>
To get a role assignment:<br>
<br>
GET /role-assignments/{role_assignment_id}<br>
<br>
To remove a role assignment:<br>
<br>
DELETE /role-assignments/{role_assignment_id}<br>
<br>
To create a role assignment:<br>
<br>
POST /role_assignments<br>
<br>
{"role_assignment": {<br>
"user" {<br>
"id": user_id<br>
},<br>
"role": {<br>
"id": role_id<br>
},<br>
"scope": {<br>
"domain": {<br>
"id": domain_id<br>
},<br>
"project": {<br>
"id": project_id<br>
}<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
Note: "user" and "scope" is similar to the data structure
in auth APIs. i.e.<br>
can be either "id" or "name" + "domain".<br>
If assignment is for a group, just have "group" in there
instead of "user".<br>
For example,<br>
<br>
{"role_assignment": {<br>
"group" {<br>
"id": group_id<br>
},<br>
"role": {<br>
"id": role_id<br>
},<br>
"scope": {<br>
"domain": {<br>
"id": domain_id<br>
},<br>
"project": {<br>
"id": project_id<br>
}<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
Upon successful creation, a assignment_ref is returned. <br>
<br>
{"role-assignment": {<br>
"id": role_assignment_id<br>
"user": {<br>
"id": user_id<br>
},<br>
"role": {<br>
"id": role_id<br>
},<br>
"scope": {<br>
"domain": {<br>
"id": domain_id<br>
},<br>
"project": {<br>
"id": project_id<br>
}<br>
}<br>
"links": {<br>
"self":<br>
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://localhost:35357/v3/role-assignments/%7Brole_assignment_id%7D">http://localhost:35357/v3/role-assignments/{role_assignment_id}</a>"<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
"scope" is basically the combination and permutation of
domains and<br>
projects. "domain_id" or "project_id" can be "*" to denote
all.<br>
<br>
Role assignment is really about assigning a given [role]
to a given [user or<br>
group] <br>
for [a given project | a given domain | all projects
within a given domain |<br>
all projects in all domains | all domains].<br>
<br>
To assign a given role to a given user or group for [a
given project]<br>
<br>
"scope": {<br>
"project": {<br>
"id": project_id<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
To assign a given role to a given user or group for [all
the projects in a<br>
given domain]<br>
<br>
"scope": {<br>
"domain": {<br>
"id": domain_id<br>
},<br>
"project": {<br>
"id": "*"<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
To assign a given role to a given user or group for [a
given domain]<br>
<br>
"scope": {<br>
"domain": {<br>
"id": domain_id<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
To assign a given role to a given user or group for [all
the projects in all<br>
domains]<br>
<br>
"scope": {<br>
"domain": {<br>
"id": "*"<br>
},<br>
"project": {<br>
"id": "*"<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
To assign a given role to a given user or group for [all
domains]<br>
<br>
"scope": {<br>
"domain": {<br>
"id": "*"<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
<br>
The advantages of role_assignments CRUD are:<br>
<br>
1) simplicity (one API for role assignment, instead of
multiple)<br>
2) extensible (similiar to the auth API design). Say we
need an assignment<br>
at the federated level, we can simply add a new scope.<br>
3) consistency (with the auth APIs)<br>
4) RESTful (no need to worry about * in the path)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Guang<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Tiwari, Arvind <br>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 9:29 AM<br>
To: Henry Nash<br>
Cc: OpenStack Development Mailing List<br>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [keystone] More on inherited
domain roles<br>
<br>
Hi Henry,<br>
<br>
Thanks for looking in to my comments, I was trying to
raise #3 from your<br>
list. Any ways lets discuss this topic on etherpad from
here onwards.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Arvind<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Henry Nash [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:henryn@linux.vnet.ibm.com">henryn@linux.vnet.ibm.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 10:58 AM<br>
To: Tiwari, Arvind<br>
Cc: OpenStack Development Mailing List<br>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [keystone] More on inherited
domain roles<br>
<br>
Hi<br>
<br>
So what you have described is correct, in terms of needing
multiple roles IF<br>
you want one role that only goes to projects and one that
doesn't (e.g.<br>
maybe goes to just domains). Role explosion was the issue
raised against<br>
using the role def to hold inheritance behaviour, when it
was first<br>
discussed. However, I'd make the following comments:<br>
<br>
1) Most services don't need to be concerned about domains,
just projects -<br>
in fact, today, only keystone understands domains. Hence
there really won't<br>
be a role explosion in terms "Number of Services" x
"Multiple roles due to<br>
inheritance to projects or domains"<br>
2) In addition, I can imagine than often a cloud provider
will create roles<br>
that are project related separate from those that are
domain related - they<br>
tend to be different people doing those roles (e.g.
user_group_admin vs<br>
VM_admin etc.), so again, I think there won't be much of
any additional role<br>
explosion due to the inheritance rules between these roles<br>
3) What there might be, is some role explosions between
roles that go to all<br>
domains vs roles that go to individual domains - for that,
you will need<br>
multiple roles.<br>
4) For correctness (since we spend 40 mins on IRC on this
:-) ), the<br>
"inherited to:" field you use wasn't one of the discussed
options - I agree<br>
this is not the email to discuss that, but I don't want
anyone thinking that<br>
the structure below was one we looked at.<br>
<br>
For all: The options being discussed are continuing on an
etherpad, see:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://etherpad.openstack.org/keystone-role-inheritance">https://etherpad.openstack.org/keystone-role-inheritance</a>.
This contains all<br>
the various options being considered, including links to
the previous ones<br>
we looked at (e.g. not using the role def)<br>
<br>
Henry<br>
On 11 Jun 2013, at 21:18, Tiwari, Arvind wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
Role inheritance is very cool feature and we need this in
product, but<br>
letting RoleDef to drive the inheritance behavior seem
wrong to me as it<br>
will cause roleDef explosion and complex policy for
services to support.<br>
<br>
Let's assume a requirement<br>
<br>
1. Cloud admin should have XYZ capability on all the
projects, all<br>
domains for Sev1. (Global inheritance)<br>
2. Domain admin should have XYZ capability only on
the projects in<br>
specific domain for Sev1. (inheritance scoped to a domain)<br>
<br>
With the current approach (having inherited to in roleDef)
we have to have<br>
following two roleDefs to support the requirement and
hence you have to<br>
adjust the policy around these two roleDefs but end result
is XYZ<br>
capability.<br>
{<br>
"role": {<br>
"id": "---id---",<br>
"inheritedTo": "domain=all and project=all", (This
means, holder of<br>
this role has XYZ capability in all projects in all
domains) (Lets not worry<br>
about the how we implement it enum / Boolean flag)<br>
"links": {<br>
"self": "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://identity:35357/v3/roles/76e72a">http://identity:35357/v3/roles/76e72a</a>"<br>
},<br>
"name": "XYZ-Role-4-cloud-admin"<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
{<br>
"role": {<br>
"id": "---id---",<br>
"inheritedTo": "project=all", (This means, holder
of this role has<br>
XYZ capability in all projects in specific domain)<br>
"links": {<br>
"self": "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://identity:35357/v3/roles/76e72a">http://identity:35357/v3/roles/76e72a</a>"<br>
},<br>
"name": " XYZ-Role-4-domain-admin "<br>
}<br>
}<br>
<br>
Think about growing number of service and above mentioned
requirement, we<br>
will end up with so many roleDefs which will have
duplicate capability and<br>
hence redundant info to maintain in policy. At the same
time this solution<br>
does not address separation of concerns, we are
unnecessary overloading the<br>
roleDefs to impose role inheritance behavior which is not
its concern. The<br>
above mentioned requirement can be easily achievable by
single roleDef (may<br>
be XYZ-role-Svc1) if we remove inheritedTo concern from
roleDef and place it<br>
some ware else, role assignment is the right place to
address this concern,<br>
how that we need to figure out.<br>
<br>
Let me know if the issue I mentioned looks legitimate.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Arvind<br>
<br>
From: Henry Nash [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:henryn@linux.vnet.ibm.com">mailto:henryn@linux.vnet.ibm.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 4:30 PM<br>
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List<br>
Subject: [openstack-dev] [keystone] More on inherited
domain roles<br>
<br>
Hi<br>
<br>
So I ave submitted two new api reviews around this:<br>
<br>
1) Defining inherited roles - this is now done on the role
def itself, as<br>
suggested by David. See: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29781/12">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29781/12</a><br>
2) The two un-implmented user/role apis have been replaces
with a more<br>
flexible way of listing role-assignments.<br>
See:<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32394/2">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32394/2</a><br>
<br>
I'd like to push to get this nailed asap, so we can have a
shot at getting<br>
the code in!<br>
<br>
Both of these extensions are designed to give us the
option to to expand<br>
this support for inheritance to all domains in the future
if we chose.<br>
<br>
Henry<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>
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