<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Apologies for the formatting. I need to get back on the non-digest subscription </div><div>following my vacation.</div><div><br></div><div>To point (2), I want to make it clear that I have and will continue to devote resource </div><div>from my team to get it and keep it working. Of course, having a consistent policy </div><div>will help, as it makes little sense to go in after the fact to clean up unlocalized strings.</div><div>However, I am more than happy to apply resource to address existing code that </div><div>doesn't localize log messages.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); ">Cheers,</span><div style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); "><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); ">Christopher Ferris<br>IBM Distinguished Engineer, CTO Cloud Standards<br>IBM SWG Standards Strategy<br>Phone: <a href="tel:508-234-2986" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="1">508-234-2986</a><br>Twitter: @christo4ferris</span></div></div><div><br><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><b>Thierry Carrez</b> <a href="mailto:openstack-dev%40lists.openstack.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5Bopenstack-dev%5D%20_%28%29%20consensus%3F%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C50B87C95.9060903%40openstack.org%3E" title="[openstack-dev] _() consensus??" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">thierry at openstack.org </a><br><i>Fri Nov 30 09:29:57 UTC 2012</i></span><p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; "></p><ul style="margin: 0px 1.5em 1.5em 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 3.333em; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; "><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Previous message: <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/003559.html" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">[openstack-dev] _() consensus??</a></span></li><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Next message: <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/003543.html" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">[openstack-dev] [Quantum] [LBaaS] Quantum create port</a></span></li><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; "><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><b>Messages sorted by:</b> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/date.html#3562" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">[ date ]</a> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/thread.html#3562" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">[ thread ]</a> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/subject.html#3562" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">[ subject ]</a> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/author.html#3562" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">[ author ]</a></span></li></ul><hr style="clear: both; float: none; width: 950px; height: 1px !important; margin: 0px 0px 1.45em; border: none; "><pre style="margin-top: 1.5em; margin-bottom: 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; "><font face="Helvetica"><span style="white-space: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Joshua Harlow wrote:
><i> For further background on this whole discussion (so we can avoid
</i>><i> repeating it yet again).
</i>><i>
</i>><i> 1. <a href="http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/openstack/dev/11821?search_string=i18n%20of%20log%20message;#11821" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/openstack/dev/11821?search_string=i18n%20of%20log%20message;#11821</a>
</i>><i> 2. <a href="http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/openstack/dev/7764?search_string=i18n%20of%20log%20message" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: none; ">http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/openstack/dev/7764?search_string=i18n%20of%20log%20message</a>
</i>
There were also a number of threads about this on the main openstack
list. Every time, there is general consensus that end-user-facing
messages (think external API errors) should be translated. And every
time there is a (unresolved) conflict about log messages.
On one side there are the English-fluent developers claiming that (1)
every log-reading person on Earth can read enough English to understand
a log message and (2) if translations of log messages was so simple and
important it would have been completed and working a long time ago. On
the other side you have non-US (mostly APAC) deployers of OpenStack
claiming premise (1) isn't as true as you would believe, and who see log
message I18N as one low cost to pay to increase OpenStack adoption in
some countries.
There is no easy way to reconcile both parties. I think the PTLs should
make the final clear call for their project, and if they prefer they
could defer to the TC to define a default project-wide position on this.
Note that this is one of the very few discussions that are relevant on
both mailing-lists. Having it only here is a sure way to make the
developers reach a decision that could piss off the other half of the world.
--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)
Release Manager, OpenStack</span></font><span style="color: rgb(83, 83, 83); font-family: 'andale mono', 'lucida console', monospace; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</span></pre><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); ">Cheers,</span><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Christopher Ferris<br>IBM Distinguished Engineer, CTO Cloud Standards<br>IBM SWG Standards Strategy<br>Phone: <a href="tel:508-234-2986" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="1">508-234-2986</a><br>Twitter: @christo4ferris</span></div></div></body></html>