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    On 11/06/2012 06:47 PM, Mark McClain wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:43CB09C1-870C-4F78-B0CF-8E7BED1A8753@dreamhost.com"
      type="cite">
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      I like the idea of a Quantum ecosystem repo because it provides a
      catalog of available software and fits within the notion that
      OpenStack should have a focused core interface: compute,
      networking, and storage.  The ecosystem also promotes a healthy
      platform layer that is built upon the core.</blockquote>
    <br>
    +1<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:43CB09C1-870C-4F78-B0CF-8E7BED1A8753@dreamhost.com"
      type="cite">
      <div><br>
        <div>The ecosystem repo should require minimal set of tests:
          pep8, unit tests,  minimum coverage threshold, and basic
          certification test(s).  The certification tests should check
          for compliance with the service/plugin interface we're
          developing.  For example,  a VPN or LBaaS module will load and
          can be inspected for it's capabilities with some default set
          of configuration for the test runner.  The certification test
          won't check for functionality because I think that's outside
          the scope of things we can test.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    I like the idea of certification. It will certainly be challenging.
    It is something that we should definitely discuss more - for example
    when and how does the certification take place? What are the
    criteria for certification? <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:43CB09C1-870C-4F78-B0CF-8E7BED1A8753@dreamhost.com"
      type="cite">
      <div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The ecosystem solves several current issues:</div>
        <div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>- Plugin
            reviews take time away from core and community
            bugs/blueprints</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>- Plugins/drivers
            that require physical devices are hard to realistically
            validate.</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>- An
            ecosystem repo places the onus on quality/working code back
            on the vendor/project promoting it.</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
            Code bloat within the main repository as vendor push code
            for visibility.</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
            Platform projects do not have a visible place to grow
            around Quantum (e.g. DNSaaS).</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Separate repos would be the ideal setup, but that will
            take significant resources. We could start with a contrib
            directory within Quantum.  The contrib directory would
            have the testing requirements from above with the following
            additional rules:</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
            Quantum core code cannot import anything directly from
            contrib.  (Imports must be done via optional configuration
            options).</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
            Clearly indicate that contrib projects can be removed
            between releases for failing to maintain compatibility with
            current release.</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
            Each contrib project should have a designated maintainer
            responsible for bug fixes and compatibility.  The maintainer
            (or designate) should be present for online Quantum meetings
            during a release cycle. </div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
            Only a single core dev is required to approve changes to
            contrib if it is submitted by the maintainer.  Otherwise the
            maintainer must +1 the change first.</div>
          <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
            License must be Apache 2 with contributors completing
            OpenStack CLA process.  This will make it easy for contrib
            projects to be merged into Quantum core if they gain
            widespread community support.</div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Sounds good<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:43CB09C1-870C-4F78-B0CF-8E7BED1A8753@dreamhost.com"
      type="cite">
      <div>
        <div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>mark</div>
          <div>
            <div><br>
              <div>
                <div>On Nov 5, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Dan Wendlandt <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dan@nicira.com">dan@nicira.com</a>>
                  wrote:</div>
                <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>Hi everyone,<br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>We started discussing this at the last quantum
                    team meeting, but figured it would benefit from a
                    broader audience. </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>There is a lot of interest from networking
                    vendors and some open source project to integrate
                    with OpenStack via Quantum.  This is great, as this
                    was one of the key goals of Quantum.  The point of
                    this thread is to discuss how we make sure we enable
                    this while avoiding some potential negative
                    side-effects.  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>The primary concerns seem to be: </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>1) concern that the core dev team will be
                    overwhelmed having to review and potentially fix
                    large amounts of vendor-specific code, taking aware
                    their cycles from other community tasks.  The
                    concern is both that this may not be a good use of
                    core dev time, and that the core devs may not be
                    sufficiently familiar with the vendor backend to
                    meaningfully review the code, and may be unable to
                    test the code if they don't have access to the
                    required hardware/software.  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>2) concern that vendors may contribute code, but
                    not follow up to fix bugs, answer questions on the
                    ML, update code when needed, etc.  Basically,
                    bit-rot. <br>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:43CB09C1-870C-4F78-B0CF-8E7BED1A8753@dreamhost.com"
      type="cite">
      <div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>These are not new concerns, and to date the
                    Quantum team has had the following policy posted on
                    the wiki (decided on during a team meeting during
                    the Folsom cycle): </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>"<span
style="color:rgb(83,83,83);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:18px">Quantum
                      plugins may be open source or proprietary. Some of
                      the open source plugins are maintained in the main
                      Quantum repository (</span><a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
                      href="http://www.github.com/openstack/quantum"
                      style="color:rgb(85,26,139);border-width:0px 0px
1px;border-bottom-style:dashed;border-bottom-color:rgb(221,221,221);text-decoration:none;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:18px">http://www.github.com/openstack/quantum</a><span
style="color:rgb(83,83,83);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:18px">),
                      while others are maintained in their own separate
                      repository. As a project, we encourage plugins to
                      be kept in the main repository for several reasons
                      (a more cohesive developer community, better code
                      sharing across plugins, and more uniform testing
                      of plugins). However, we must also make sure that
                      any plugins in the main repository remain well
                      maintained. As a result, any plugin that is in the
                      main repo must have at least one active member of
                      the quantum core developer team willing to
                      maintain it. This may be achieved by having an
                      existing core dev agree to maintain a plugin, or
                      by having one of the developers of the plugin
                      become a member of the core developer team." </span></div>
                  <div><font color="#535353" face="sans-serif"><span
                        style="font-size:14px;line-height:18px"><br>
                      </span></font></div>
                  <div><font face="sans-serif"><span
                        style="font-size:14px;line-height:18px">Essentially,
                        the policy is to strongly encourage people to
                        add their plugins to the main repo, but to make
                        sure that they also provide value to the
                        community in return.   If they do not go down
                        this path, we still allow them to "advertise"
                        their plugin on the Quantum wiki page, though it
                        is hosted in an external repo, and the core team
                        does not try to answer questions about it on the
                        mailing list.  </span></font></div>
                  <div><font face="sans-serif"><span
                        style="font-size:14px;line-height:18px"><br>
                      </span></font></div>
                  <div><font face="sans-serif"><span
                        style="font-size:14px;line-height:18px">In terms
                        of current status, the OVS, Cisco, Linux Bridge,
                        NVP, and NEC plugins all have core devs backing
                        them up.  </span></font><span
                      style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;
                      line-height: 18px; ">The Metaplugin is maintained
                      by someone who is not a core dev, but is very
                      active in the community in many areas.  The Ryu
                      plugin is actively maintained, though the
                      maintainers contributions are mostly focused on
                      Ryu changes, and often has trouble getting core
                      reviews.  </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; "><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; ">So to date, I think
                      we've been reasonable successfully with the
                      current policy.  I'm writing this email more
                      because I want to get ahead of potential issues
                      that will pop-up in grizzly, giving the exploding
                      interest in Quantum core plugins as well as
                      plugins/drivers for the LBaaS side of things.  For
                      example, there are several plugins already
                      proposed (e.g., Brocade plugin, Ruijie General
                      Operation System, Juniper, bigswitch/floodlight,
                      hyper-v, etc) as well as many LB vendors
                      (riverbed, radware, F5, vmware, etc.) looking to
                      integrate.  </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; "><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; ">I think the existing
                      policy will result in us turning away some such
                      contributions, which is sub-optimal.  However,
                      changing the policy to allow all plugins might
                      swamp core developers, prevent them from focusing
                      on improving the platform as a while (and
                      ultimately making it much less attractive to be a
                      core developer, which is VERY bad).  </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; "><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; ">If we're not happy with
                      the current state of things, one option is to</span><span
                      style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;
                      line-height: 18px; "> keep the existing policy,
                      but also establish a 'quantum-ecosystem' repo,
                      that let's people contribute their code to
                      openstack quantum, though without having to go
                      through the standard review process (instead, we'd
                      probably have a simple model where someone is the
                      maintainer for a particular plugin/driver and can
                      solicit reviews from everyone, but is still able
                      to commit regardless).  This let's vendors say
                      that they have contributed the code to quantum,
                      without burdening the core team.  This repo could
                      have automated tests that pull in the primary
                      quantum code as a dependency and run the same unit
                      tests.  We'd have to decide whether failures in
                      these unit tests are just warnings, or if they
                      would actually block commits.  Distros would
                      decide whether to include certain plugins/drivers
                      based on demand.  </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; "><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; ">A variation on this
                      model could be keep all such code in the main
                      Quantum repo, but enforcing different review
                      criteria based on whether it is scoped to a single
                      plugin or affects the whole community.  This is
                      not all that different from what happens today in
                      practice, in that usually the core maintainer
                      makes sure there was a thorough review from
                      someone familiar with the plugin, then gets a
                      second core review that focuses more on general
                      python coding guidelines.  </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; "><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; ">I'm sure there are
                      other ideas on this as well, so feel free to offer
                      your own.  Thanks for reading :)</span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; "><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; ">Dan</span></div>
                  <div>
                    <span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:
                      14px; line-height: 18px; "><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    -- <br>
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
                    Dan Wendlandt 
                    <div>Nicira, Inc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://www.nicira.com/" target="_blank">www.nicira.com</a><br>
                      <div>twitter: danwendlandt<br>
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
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                    href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
                </blockquote>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OpenStack-dev mailing list
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</pre>
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