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<div>Sasha,</div>
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<div>Thanks for your question, it is good to be clear on that. In this framework, we are talking about generic services regardless if they are physical appliances, VMs or both.</div>
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<div>Cheers,</div>
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<div>Edgar</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Sasha Ratkovic <<a href="mailto:sasharatkovic@juniper.net">sasharatkovic@juniper.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, November 5, 2012 12:06 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [openstack-dev] [Quantum] Advanced service insertion<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Edgar,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">One question inline below:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> Edgar Magana (eperdomo) [<a href="mailto:eperdomo@cisco.com">mailto:eperdomo@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 05, 2012 8:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [Quantum] Advanced service insertion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">First, let's do not focus this framework on just one kind of Service, I know that is your plan but I wanted to make an emphasizes
on that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">All agreed on the "routed mode".. Good job!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">On the "in-path": From the networking point of view, a VM (service) could be connected between two networks in the same L2 domain
and it is NOT considered "routing", basic networking concept. I did run this example last year with a Web Optimization service, the two interfaces in the service should be in "stitching mode" (IP is not needed). So, let's keep this insertion mode in our proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[Sasha] I think we need to be careful when we talk about “service appliance (VM)” and “services”. Given that you say “VM (service)” which one
are you implying? If it is “service appliance” should this be part of “device lifecycle management” API?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">On the "out-of-path": This use case is too different from the previous one, in this one, we need L3 domain. The reason on having
these three modes in because some services are available for any of these models, we need to be Generic in our proposal, otherwise we will let some services out of the picture for Quantum.</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I have already sent you a webex meeting details for tomorrow at 10:00am PST right after the LBaaS meeting. Let me know if you can
attend it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">BTW. If you send me your figures in an editable format, I can draw the new ones and we could actually merged these two wikis in only
one. I think we should do that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/QuantumServicesInsertion">http://wiki.openstack.org/QuantumServicesInsertion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ServiceInsertion">http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ServiceInsertion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Edgar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore Orlando <<a href="mailto:sorlando@nicira.com">sorlando@nicira.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 5, 2012 7:59 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [openstack-dev] [Quantum] Advanced service insertion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Hi Edgar,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">please see my replies inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">On 2 November 2012 23:16, Edgar Magana (eperdomo) <<a href="mailto:eperdomo@cisco.com" target="_blank">eperdomo@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I am sorry it took me few days in collecting all the feedback for our team about the changes in your proposal but there are few guys
here interested in this framework and instead of having multiples emails back and for, I decided to collect all the feedback. Actually, I think we are getting closer to an agreement but few things are not completely clear yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">1. The "routed mode" is just great. This is something that we missed in our proposal and we completely agree on it but this is not
"in-path" service insertion, we can called routed mode or embedded mode but it is not the "in-path" one. Another question on this mode, how does the router know which networks will be affected for the respective service, or just all of the network behind that
router entity will be affected?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">It depends on what do you mean by "affected". What I meant is actually just that the router defines the "scope" of the advanced service
being attached. And the scope in that case would be the L3 domain defined by the router and all subnets attached to it. However, whether an advanced service "affects" or not those subnets or particular ports on them is probably something that pertains the
service itself. For instance, with Load Balancing, you explicitly nominate the ports that you want to be load balanced (pool members concepts). Similarly, I believe that an edge firewall service might apply to the entire domain; but it is completely normal
that might be a service that applies only to a specific subnet (I'm think of VPN hear, but bear in mind that I'm thinking aloud!)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">2. Actually, the next mode in your wiki, the one that you call "floating" is the "In-path" but you caveat, it should be just one
L2 domain covered instead of two like in your diagram. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I think there a slight difference as what we're describing here is both your 'in-path' mode or another mode, where the advanced service
is placed between two subnets and still does routing, but is not associated with the default gateway for your network. John Gruber has a good discussion of this an other use cases on his wiki page (<a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/NetworkLoadBalancingIntegrationsWithQuantum">http://wiki.openstack.org/NetworkLoadBalancingIntegrationsWithQuantum</a>).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">3. The "out-of-path" insertion mode is missing, we need to have one case were the routing entity is forwarding packages to the "Advance
Service", they get processed and then sent back to the router entity that will be delivering them to their final network(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Isn't that what I'm describing above? Could it be that in-path and out-of-path can be merged in the same use case? Or is there something
fundamentally different? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">4. For the API definition, having a new resource just named "Service" should be fine, I think we should merge "serviceType" and "ServiceDefinition"
in only one dictionary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I put them as two dicts to simplify the discussion, but I too do not see ServiceDefinition as worth becoming a resource on its own, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Personally, I want to understand more about it and maybe having a call between us will help, what do you think? Should we schedule
a Service Insertion meeting to finalize the design this Monday?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I think it makes sense to chat about this on Tuesday either during or after the LBaaS call. This is because in that call you'll find
all the other people interested in this topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I'd like however to establish a reasonable subset of topic on which there's widespread agreement and start straight with the implementation.
We need to give people implementing advanced service for Quantum a minimum framework for deploying them; once we have a minimum, but reasonable, set of framework to implement, we should keep having discussion on the remaining topic on which we have been unable
to agree so far.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I think that the choices to make, with regards to G-1 are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">1) Which insertion modes support (this is from the tenant's perspective)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">2) What should be the best solution for dispatching API calls to the plugin (or plugins)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thanks a lot,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Edgar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore Orlando <<a href="mailto:sorlando@nicira.com" target="_blank">sorlando@nicira.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Date:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:11 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [openstack-dev] [Quantum] Advanced service insertion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Hi,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I have updated the specification for the service insertion trying the feedback from the community [3].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I did my best to listen to the concerns expressed by Eugene and his team, which came out with this alternative spec [1].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Also, I did explicitly take into account also the thoughts contained in a presentation from Edgar at the Boston summit (related wiki
page at [2])<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I am finishing up the last details, including a list of work items that reasonably needs to be addressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I would like to leverage today's LBaaS meeting to sort out priorities, as load balancing is depending on this feature; but feel free
to comment on this email thread or reach out to me on the IRC channel.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">[1] <a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ServiceIntegration" target="_blank">wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ServiceIntegration</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">[2] <a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/QuantumServicesInsertion" target="_blank">wiki.openstack.org/QuantumServicesInsertion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">[3] <a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ServiceInsertion" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ServiceInsertion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">On 27 October 2012 09:53, Salvatore Orlando <<a href="mailto:sorlando@nicira.com" target="_blank">sorlando@nicira.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">On 27 October 2012 02:29, Edgar Magana (eperdomo) <<a href="mailto:eperdomo@cisco.com" target="_blank">eperdomo@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">It would be great if you could include in this proposal the previous Services Insertion BP:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/services-insertion-wrapper" target="_blank">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/services-insertion-wrapper</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">It is also fully described here:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/QuantumServicesInsertion" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstack.org/QuantumServicesInsertion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I am aware of this blueprint, which was presented at the Essex summit in Boston. Within certain limits, the work that we've done
for presenting this new blueprint includes also the thoughts in that blueprint.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I see a lot of common work between these two proposals, actually this one should be an extension of previous BP instead of having
a new one. The mayor point of contribution in your BP is the API side that in the previous summit we decided to not targeted but for Grizzly is a great opportunity. So, in terms of common areas I found these ones: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I looked for your blueprint, but could not find it. The reason for this, now that I see it, is that the blueprint is marked as implemented.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I guess the code is in the Cisco plugin only?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">And I do apologise again for not giving you the right credit for this work. It was not our intention to "steal" work performed by
other members of the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">You described three insertion points: network-level, router-level and port-level. The first and the second ones are exactly on the
same lines that what is explained in the previous BP named as: In-Path (Bump in the Wire) and Out-of-Path (Redirection) insertion models, the third one is a new one and I completely agree with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">And actually the port-level insertion is a bit out of topic in my blueprint as I think it is best described as attributes you apply
to ports.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I know the models are similar - you might now believe it, but I've actually looked at your work :) - but also slightly different
as the advanced services are not independent objects which are inserted in the topology. We left the topology very simple (logical routers + logical switches), which is also equivalent to the concepts of L3 domains and L2 domains proposed by Sasha.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I don’t think that floating IPs is really a good example of Services Insertion, it is just a functionality that it was needed for
nova parity but a formal L3 service is indeed required. We could also take a look to the work that Sumit presented last summit:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/quantum-l3" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstack.org/quantum-l3</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I'm trying to be very programatic, and consider as L3 only the mere Layer-3 forwarding. This will allow us to define service offerings
which can potentially have different providers for every possible functionality. This unless we decide that SNAT/DNAT are capabilities that should be offered by the basic L3 service. I think most, if not all, of the thoughts in Sumit's presentation are faithfully
represented by the implementation that is shipped as an extension in Folsom.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">In terms of Tenant vs Provider perspective, what is exactly the proposal? Is this API tenant facing, provider or both?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I believe it should be for both, you can have services insertion at SP level and also per tenants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">On this topic I am also fairly open. We give a default policy, but then the actual roles will vary from deployment to deployment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">The idea is that admin will define the "service offerings", whereas tenants insert services in their logical L2/L3 networks. So for
instance a tenant creates a router and chooses the service offering. In that service offering, the provider has specified which services the tenant can enable, and has also specified how those service should be provide (a detail that the tenant should not
be concerned wide)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">API description in slide 10 is not really clear, I think we should just have one resource, SERVICE with all required CRUD operations,
what do you think? Could you explain a little bit more on this area?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Scenario 1 in slide 14 is great, actually this is what we call In-Path service insertion, so we are in the same page.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Correct. The only difference is that the idea here is to not actually "plug" the service into the path between the router and the
networks, but rather "attach" the service to the router itself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">It might seem only a technical detail, but the goal is to avoid the sprawling of complex virtual topologies which end up replicating
the complexity of the physical data centre.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">The L2/L3 topology which came out of the Folsom release, together with service insertion, represent a "blueprint" for a virtual network
topology with rich capabilties; tenant can then define arbitrary topologies by replicating this "blueprint" (but this is post-grizzly work).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Scenario 2 in slide 15 is not very clear, how the traffic is redirected to the LB services in this example? Could you bring some
light on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Yeah, as I said in the summit session I love to make things more complex than what they should be. The scenario I am describing on
the right part of the slide would be one where you perform load balancing across ports on the same network (basically both the VIPs and the services are on the same network). This is what happens when you do load balancing in a "Flat" network - if you do that
(one-arm) on a Quantum network, you'll end up with scenario 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Scenario 3 is actually the realistic one, is what we call Out-of-Path service insertion, so we are good there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Yes. One difference I've noticed is that in you blueprint all the services behind a gateway, which I believe is still part of the
topology itself. In the slides you're referring to instead, the router providing load balancing only has VIPs attached directly to the external network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I think the API should be exclusively for managing services insertion but in slide 18 you mention "Tenant APIs for handling services
types" what do you mean with that? How different is that one from the SP one?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I am referring to the API for enabling or disabling services that the provider has made available within a service type. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">We did not have enough time during the summit to discuss about this but I hope we can continue this discussion over the mailing list.
This is a very exiting work and we want to work together on the development.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Edgar Magana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore Orlando <<a href="mailto:sorlando@nicira.com" target="_blank">sorlando@nicira.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:15 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>OpenStack List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[openstack-dev] [Quantum] Advanced service insertion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">The blueprint for advanced services insertion has been registered and can be found here: <a href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-service-insertion" target="_blank">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-service-insertion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">The design specification is about 75% complete - your feedback is more than welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Please use this email thread for discussing design details, unless you feel there's a more suitable medium.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Salvatore<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
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<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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