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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think that it should be our primary interest to have LBaaS easily available and nicely integrated with OpenStack and Quantum .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The way how this is implemented (Java / Python) should be on a much lesser importance since if for argument sake we will create the “best LBaaS the world has
ever seen” but it is not part of the core Open Stack solution, the market exposure and the ability to actually get customers to adopt this will be reduces.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Atlas-LB which I think is a good solution and we (Radware) has invested some effort in it, is available for quite a long time, but as far as I am aware the
only adoption it has so far is by Rackspace who have originally contributed it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It is of interest to understand why several of the other public clouds that are using OpenStack did not decide to also use Atlas-LB (yet?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I suspect, that this might be due to the additional complexity involved in adding and using a project which is not part of the core OpenStack solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Based on what was said here by Dan and the quotes Roman has pointed to (we can also discuss this further on the summit), if Python is the only way to achieve
this, that by all means this is how we need to proceed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On the other hand, if based on our analysis, we will find that there is a substantial difference between a new Python based solution or one of the other Java
based ones (Atlas-LB or EBay). it might be worth to discuss and exception from the PPB.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To conduct a such a discussion and drive to a decision we should have listed the appropriate requirements and blue prints that we agree are needed for LBaaS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The end result would serve us anyway to stir the features and directions of this solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Should we host such a requirement list /blue print list on the wiki page or is there another place to start?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> -Sam.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Roman Alekseenkov [mailto:ralekseenkov@mirantis.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Palanisamy, Anand; John Gruber; Eugene Kirpichev; Alex Gosse; Raja Srinivasan; Kobi Samoray; Youcef Laribi; Martin, JC; Brodskiy, Yuriy; Busby, Brent; smaskalik@vmware.com; somik@nicira.com; dan@nicira.com; Daniels, Alsontra; Colorado, Kim; Mcwilliams,
Brad; Jain, Vivek; Punati, Ravi; Instenes, Shawn; Narancic, Chris; 'Somik Behera'; Avishay Balderman; Samuel Bercovici; 'Jorge Miramontes'; Malkowski Jr, Marvin; Cotton, Dave; Gandhi, Kunal; openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: LBaaS & Quantum - Design Summit Preparation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">As OpenStack project types were discussed in the end of today's LBaaS meeting, I would like to share the relevant links <a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/Projects">http://wiki.openstack.org/Projects</a> and <a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/ProjectTypes">http://wiki.openstack.org/ProjectTypes</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Now, straight to the point. I made an attempt here to summarize all opinions in order to make a constructive dialog regarding Java vs. Python, and place of LBaaS in OpenStack. All of these answers are from PPB
members:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span class="apple-style-span">Language:</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<span class="apple-style-span">Thierry (PPB): core projects should be in Python, exceptions are up to PPB
<span style="color:#333333">(</span></span><a href="https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg15092.html">https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg15092.html</a>)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
Dan (PPB): <span class="apple-style-span">core projects should be in Python, exceptions are up to PPB
<span style="color:#333333">(</span></span><a href="https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg15128.html">https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg15128.html</a>)<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ol>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
Where LBaaS should land:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
Dan (PPB): L4-L7 services are within scope of Quantum. LBaaS makes sense as a sub-component of Quantum, but ultimately the decision is up to PPB (<a href="https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg15128.html">https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg15128.html</a>) <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
Jesse (PPB): not clear whether LBaaS belongs to IaaS or PaaS, and whether it is essential to be included into OpenStack core (<a href="https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg07306.html">https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg07306.html</a>)<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ol>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Now I wanted to share my own personal opinion. Not on the language and specific implementation (these discussions were not very productive lately), but on where LBaaS should land. So far we only have Dan's definitive
opinion, so I think mine will be the second:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
LBaaS is a very important service/feature<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
there is such a large audience being present on regular LBaaS meetings<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
we have already discussed a number of different LB use cases<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
vendors are interested in moving it forward (F5, Citrix, Radware, Cisco, HP, etc)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
ultimately, application delivery is the key. LB plays an important role here<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
look at all public clouds out there<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ol>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
I completely agree with the vision that OpenStack is not IaaS + PaaS. And LB devices nicely fall into IaaS especially when we are talking about hardware load balancers. See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing</a> & <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cloud_computing_layers.png">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cloud_computing_layers.png</a><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
If a decision is made to proceed with non-core route for LBaaS, that would mean<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol start="3" type="1">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
no load balancing functionality out-of-the-box (imagine Amazon without ELB)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
people will have to download, set up and plug in an external component for LB, likely Java-based<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
this component will likely be on a separate release schedule, independent of OpenStack<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
people will less likely want to use it & there will be a barrier for adoption (that's what we already seeing with 2 of our customers)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2">
LBaaS being outside of core adds another layer of complexity for people who want to upgrade their OpenStack installation and/or LBaaS. In ideal world I would imagine OpenStack having an "appstore" for add-ons (LBaaS, billing, monitoring, etc) and everything
works flawlessly including upgrades, but in the current form of "ecosystem around core" I can't quite imagine LBaaS being an important outside component<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ol>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Therefore, I think we should try to get LBaaS feature set into core (disclaimer -- this is, again, my personal opinion). This means either having a Python implementation,
or Java-based implementation + exception from PPB. Keeping Atlas as a "Related" Java project does not seem to be the best option as it will not actually change much in terms of current adoption & traction, and also for the reasons which I described above.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">P.S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">"Related projects are unofficial projects with no rights to use OpenStack brand and assets or project resources. Related projects are made of up projects that <u>have
chosen to associate themselves with OpenStack</u>. These projects are <u>not officially tied to OpenStack</u> or any OpenStack processes or resources, but may make use of OpenStack or add functionality on top of OpenStack projects. <u>The "related project"
designation is meant to provide an aggregation method for the community to expose useful projects</u> and products in the OpenStack ecosystem that are not directly part of the core or incubated projects."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Roman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">On 8/20/12 12:26 PM, "Palanisamy, Anand" <<a href="mailto:apalanisamy@paypal.com">apalanisamy@paypal.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">The wiki is updated for eBay LBaaS project.
<a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/LBaaS">http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/LBaaS</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Anand<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">From:
<a href="mailto:apalanisamy@paypal.com">apalanisamy@paypal.com</a><<a href="mailto:apalanisamy@paypal.com">mailto:apalanisamy@paypal.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">When: 9:00 AM - 10:00 AM August 21, 2012<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Subject: LBaaS & Quantum - Design Summit Preparation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Location: 11 /11.2.057 Ahoy (18)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Dan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Pls. share the wiki link and I will add the eBay Design Docs before the next week meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Agenda:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"> * eBay LBaaS Demo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"> * Comparison with Mirantis LBaaS, Atlas-LB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"> * Take Aways for Design Summit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">Location:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">eBay/PayPal Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">2211 N 1st st<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">San Jose, CA 95131 USA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><a href="https://myroom-na.adobeconnect.com/anandpalanisamy/">https://myroom-na.adobeconnect.com/anandpalanisamy/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">(855) 227-1767(USA) - 08003765931(UK) Conf. Code 7152259<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">0008006103229 (India – Toll Free)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">81080024322044(Moscow) 4992701688(Moscow)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><a href="https://www.intercallonline.com/portlets/scheduling/viewNumbers/listNumbersByCode.do?confCode=7152259&name=&email=&selectedProduct=joinMeeting">https://www.intercallonline.com/portlets/scheduling/viewNumbers/listNumbersByCode.do?confCode=7152259&name=&email=&selectedProduct=joinMeeting</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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