<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Bill Shetti <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:billshetti@gmail.com" target="_blank">billshetti@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi, catching up, and sorry for the request for history... but here it is.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>You can see a short explanation of this on the FAQ here: <a href="http://wiki.openstack.org/QuantumDevelopment">http://wiki.openstack.org/QuantumDevelopment</a> . Longer explanation below. </div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>What compelled the original decision to be made on enabling only ONE plugin/backend (whatever you want to call it)?</div>
<div><br>
</div><div>Ideally you will want to instantiate multiple services from different vendors etc. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is the big misconception that I mentioned earlier in the thread. There is nothing that limits a plugin to dealing with a single vendor technology. A plugin defines a strategy for mapping from logical-layer network resources (quantum networks, ports, etc.) to provider-layer network constructs (e.g., VLANs, hypervisor NICs). For example, a simple plugin might map each quantum network to a VLAN ID, which it assumes it trunked to all switches. Even if these switches are from multiple vendors, a plugin just needs a "driver" that allows it to configure VLANs on each type of switch. Using multiple drivers at once is definitely possible in the current model. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Stepping back, a helpful way to think about a "plugin" is really "what chunk of code do I invoke when API CRUD operations are performed for networks, subnets, and ports"? Is it code that allocates a VLAN/tunnel-id in a database and tries to communicate with switches? Is it code that just proxies this call to an OpenFlow controller, which does the heavy lifting? </div>
<div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>Ueno-san's metaplugin should basically - baseline in quantum.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>The ability to create "metaplugins" was actually part of the original Quantum design... its just one more "strategy" for dispatching API calls. The tricky part is that to date I've heard multiple different strategies for how a metaplugin might decide which sub-plugin to dispatch to (Nachi's is one reasonable approach), so hard-coding a particular meta-plugin strategy seems unwise and unnecessary, given that a metaplugin works perfectly fine already in the existing architecture. If at some point in the future a particular approach becomes standard, then perhaps baking it into the architecture would make sense. </div>
<div> </div><div>Dan</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Bill</div></font></span><div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Nachi Ueno <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nachi@nttmcl.com" target="_blank">nachi@nttmcl.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">2012/8/2 Dan Wendlandt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dan@nicira.com" target="_blank">dan@nicira.com</a>></span><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Suffice it to say we're not going to make any drastic changes with the time remaining on F-3, but I think we can talk about this at the Grizzly summit. <div><br></div></blockquote><div> </div></div><div>I agree. This is reason why I implemented this function my plugin and extension.</div>
<div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>We actually put a lot of thought into whether IPAM should have a separate plugin or not, and decided that the two where so tightly coupled that it didn't make sense. We will be moving toward a model where higher level services (routers, loadbalancers, firewalls, etc.) can be implemented by plugins other than the core L2 + IPAM plugin. </div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div></font></span></blockquote><div> </div></div><div>I got use point ,but Coupling L2 + IPAM only makes sense when we use one L2 plugin. </div><div>It is normal large infrastructure uses multiple L2 technologies. </div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Nachi</div></font></span><div><div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><font color="#888888"><div></div><div>
Dan</div></font></span><div>
<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Nachi Ueno <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nachi@nttmcl.com" target="_blank">nachi@nttmcl.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Hua<div><br></div><div>I agree with you. Current plugin architecture is kind of <span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,'Arial New','\00ff2d\00ff33 \00ff30 \0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af',sans-serif">silo.</span></div>
<div>My concern is about IPAM and L3.</div><div><br></div><div>- IPAM</div><div> IPAM plugin and L2 plugin can be different. However it is combined in current structure.</div><div><br></div><div>- L3 function</div><div>
It needed to be connected each L2 plugin in L3.</div><div><br></div><div>They are a reason I'm proposing Metaplugin.</div><div><a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10181/" target="_blank">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10181/</a> ( I'm very welcome your reviews! :) )</div>
<div><br></div><div>By implementation of Metaplugin, I realized if each plugin will inherits QuantumDBPluginV2, and </div><div> they do not use same table. We can use multiple plugin at once.</div><div>So at least IPAM will be solved.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best</div><span><font color="#888888"><div>Nachi Ueno</div></font></span><div><div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">2012/8/1 Hua ZZ Zhang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zhuadl@cn.ibm.com" target="_blank">zhuadl@cn.ibm.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<p><font face="sans-serif">just add my cents here.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif">"Driver" concept make sense to my understaning. The current quantum underline plugins works and behaves more like </font><font face="serif">network connectivity provider </font><font face="sans-serif">on top of specific type of device, from hardware and software, from vendors to open source. You can only enable ONE of it to provide virtual network service, but can't deploy without it.Just like database driver, it provide access of data backend and can't be absent. However plugin is not a essential part. Multiple plugins can be enabled at the same time in many software cases. They can work together with host to provide more functionalities. </font><br>
<font face="sans-serif"><br>
</font><font size="1" face="serif"><b>Best Regards, </b></font><font size="1" face="serif"><br>
<br>
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<img width="16" height="16" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Dan Wendlandt ---2012-07-31 14:50:45---Yes, we've had this discussion many times :) I agree that peop"><font color="#424282" face="sans-serif">Dan Wendlandt ---2012-07-31 14:50:45---Yes, we've had this discussion many times :) I agree that people find the term "plugin" confusing, but each time we've talked</font><br>
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<ul style="padding-left:72pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><b>Dan Wendlandt <<a href="mailto:dan@nicira.com" target="_blank">dan@nicira.com</a>></b></font><font size="1" face="sans-serif"> </font>
<p><font size="1" face="sans-serif">2012-07-31 14:45</font>
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<div align="right"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">To</font></div></td><td width="100%"><img width="1" height="1" border="0" alt=""><br>
<ul style="padding-left:7pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">"Sumit Naiksatam (snaiksat)" <<a href="mailto:snaiksat@cisco.com" target="_blank">snaiksat@cisco.com</a>></font></ul>
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<ul style="padding-left:7pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">OpenStack Development Mailing List <<a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:netstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank">netstack@lists.launchpad.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:netstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank">netstack@lists.launchpad.net</a>>, Willian Molinari <<a href="mailto:willian.molinari@locaweb.com.br" target="_blank">willian.molinari@locaweb.com.br</a>></font></ul>
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<ul style="padding-left:7pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [openstack-dev] [Netstack] [Quantum] plugin -> backend</font></ul>
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<br>
<font size="3" face="serif">Yes, we've had this discussion many times :) I agree that people find the term "plugin" confusing, but each time we've talked about it, we've failed to find a single term that is substantially better to warrant the confusion likely to be caused by renaming. </font><br>
<br>
<font size="3" face="serif">In some cases I've started using the term "engine" when describing the plugin concept to people, since its really about a "pluggable backend" that powers the generic quantum API layer. The name "driver" was very intentionally not chosen, as driver implies that it is specific to a particular type of back-end device, whereas a Quantum plugin is really more about an overall strategy of creating logical networks, etc. For example, you could have a generic VLAN plugin that has drivers to talk to many different types of switches. </font><br>
<br>
<font size="3" face="serif">Dan<br>
</font><br>
<font size="3" face="serif">On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Sumit Naiksatam (snaiksat) <</font><a href="mailto:snaiksat@cisco.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>snaiksat@cisco.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif">> wrote:</font>
<ul style="padding-left:9pt"><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">Hi,</font>
<p><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">I believe there are two topics of discussion here, one of which is the terminology. The way things are implemented today, I agree that the “plugin” terminology seems a bit confusing. However, probably the bigger topic of discussion is what kind of a design is preferable, “backend” versus “plugin”? As Yong points out, today’s Quantum service completely relies on the plugin for providing all functionality, including functionality that is probably common across plugins (like state management of logical resources, IPAM, etc.). Going forward, would it make sense to push some of the common functionality into the Quantum service, and have plugins which actually behave like the name suggests?</font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">Thanks,</font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">~Sumit.</font>
</p><p><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font>
</p><p><font face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b></font><font face="Tahoma"> netstack-bounces+snaiksat=</font><a href="mailto:cisco.com@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>cisco.com@lists.launchpad.net</u></font></a><font face="Tahoma"> [mailto:</font><a href="mailto:netstack-bounces%2Bsnaiksat" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>netstack-bounces+snaiksat</u></font></a><font face="Tahoma">=</font><a href="mailto:cisco.com@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>cisco.com@lists.launchpad.net</u></font></a><font face="Tahoma">] </font><font face="Tahoma"><b>On Behalf Of </b></font><font face="Tahoma">Yong Sheng Gong</font><font face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Sent:</b></font><font face="Tahoma"> Monday, July 30, 2012 7:05 PM</font><font face="Tahoma"><b><br>
To:</b></font><font face="Tahoma"> Willian Molinari</font><font face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Cc:</b></font><font face="Tahoma"> OpenStack Development Mailing List; </font><a href="mailto:netstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>netstack@lists.launchpad.net</u></font></a><font face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Subject:</b></font><font face="Tahoma"> Re: [Netstack] [Quantum] plugin -> backend</font>
</p><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font>
</p><p><font face="Verdana">Hi,<br>
Add it into openstack-dev and [quantum] into the subject.<br>
<br>
Yes, 'backend' seems better than 'plugin' for our case here.<br>
<br>
Our plugin is a must for quantum server to work, while 'plugin' tends to make us think it will provide more functionalities if we plug it in.<br>
And I don't think our plugin is 'pluggable backend'. I prefer to call it 'replaceable or configurable' 'backend' or 'dirver'. <br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Yong Sheng Gong<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font color="#0000FF" face="Verdana"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="mailto:-----netstack-bounces+gongysh=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Verdana"><u>-----netstack-bounces+gongysh=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net</u></font></a><font color="#990099" face="Verdana"> wrote: -----</font>
</p><p><font face="Verdana">To: </font><a href="mailto:netstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Verdana"><u>"netstack@lists.launchpad.net"</u></font></a><font face="Verdana"> </font><a href="mailto:netstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Verdana"><u><netstack@lists.launchpad.net></u></font></a><font face="Verdana"><br>
From: Willian Molinari <br>
Sent by: </font><a href="mailto:netstack-bounces+gongysh=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Verdana"><u>netstack-bounces+gongysh=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net</u></font></a><font face="Verdana"><br>
Date: 07/31/2012 07:26AM<br>
Subject: [Netstack] plugin -> backend</font>
</p><p><font face="Tahoma">Æ!!<br>
<br>
Hi folks!<br>
<br>
I was concerned to bring the "plugins" discussion because it looks like a bikeshedding <br>
and it probably was discussed before, but I think it will be beneficial at all.<br>
<br>
What motivated me to bring the discussion was the Metaplugin implementation <br>
(</font><a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10181/" target="_blank"><font color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10181/</u></font></a><font face="Tahoma">) that looks like a quantum backend implementing<br>
support for plugins.<br>
<br>
When we first looked into quantum we thought that quantum plugin was following the same <br>
concept of all other plugins (ie we should install a lot of plugins to enhance the application)<br>
but we found that this is not the concept of quantum plugins, talking to Dan about this at<br>
the openstack summit I found the real concept of quantum plugins and I heard some people<br>
saying that plugins should be something like a "pluggable backend", so why not to call the <br>
plugin just "backend"?<br>
<br>
Looks natural to have just one backend at time and this backend should handle multiple<br>
plugins if needed (the metaplugin case).<br>
<br>
Sorry for bringing a non-technical discussion like this but every time someone asks me to <br>
explain what quantum does I need to show plugins as "backends" to make sense.<br>
<br>
I'm the only guy that think it's confusing? :P<br>
<br>
Just want to hear your ideas about this topic. </font>
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