[openstack-dev] [Openstack-sigs] [tc]Global Reachout Proposal

Zhipeng Huang zhipengh512 at gmail.com
Wed Sep 19 23:15:51 UTC 2018

A quick sidenote for anyone is using riot.im but not super familiar with it
like I did ...

Its global search could not cache all the openstack channels, therefore you
have to manually join them via their own cmd lines as I recently discover
the methods ..
1. add @appservice-irc:matrix.org for friend
2. type in the console : !join chat.freenode.net #openstack-xxx

For registration, it is more wacky but I found it on google anyways:
1. add @appservice-irc:matrix.org for friend
2. type in the console : !storepass chat.freenode.net PASSWORD
3. add NickServ(IRC) for friend
4. type in the console : identify NICK PASSWORD

viola ....

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 1:34 AM Melvin Hillsman <mrhillsman at gmail.com>

> Regarding some web clients that are potentially useful
> https://webchat.freenode.net/
>   - Zane mentioned this already and I can say I tried/used it some time
> ago until I opted for CLI/alternatives
> https://riot.im (iOS and Android apps available along with online client)
>   - i find it a bit sluggish at times, others have not, either way it is a
> decent alternative
> https://thelounge.chat/
>   - have not tried it yet but looks promising especially self-hosted option
> https://irccloud.com
>   - what I currently use, I do believe it can be blocked, i am looking
> into riot and thelounge tbh
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 12:18 PM Zane Bitter <zbitter at redhat.com> wrote:
>> On 18/09/18 9:10 PM, Jaesuk Ahn wrote:
>> > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:30 AM Zane Bitter <zbitter at redhat.com
>> > <mailto:zbitter at redhat.com>> wrote:
>> Resotring the whole quote here because I accidentally sent the original
>> to the -sigs list only and not the -dev list.
>> >> As others have mentioned, I think this is diving into solutions when
>> we haven't defined the problems. I know you mentioned it briefly in the PTG
>> session, but that context never made it to the review or the mailing list.
>> >>
>> >> So AIUI the issue you're trying to solve here is that the TC members
>> seem distant and inaccessible to Chinese contributors because we're not on
>> the same social networks they are?
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps there are others too?
>> >>
>> >> Obvious questions to ask from there would be:
>> >>
>> >> - Whether this is the most important issue facing contributors from
>> the APAC region
>> >>
>> >> - To what extent the proposed solution is expected to help
>> >
>> >
>> > I do agree with Zane on the above point.
>> For the record, I didn't express an opinion. I'm just pointing out what
>> the questions are.
>> > As one of OpenStack participants from Asia region, I will put my
>> > personal opinion.
>> > IRC and ML has been an unified and standard way of communication in
>> > OpenStack Community, and that has been a good way to encourage "open
>> > communication" on a unified method wherever you are from, or whatever
>> > background you have. If the whole community start recognize some other
>> > tools (say WeChat) as recommended alternative communication method
>> > because there are many people there, ironically, it might be a way to
>> > break "diversity" and "openness" we want to embrace.
>> >
>> > Using whatever social media (or tools) in a specific region due to any
>> > reason is not a problem. Anyone is free to use anything. Only thing we
>> > need to make sure is, if you want to communicate officially with the
>> > whole community, there is a very well defined and unified way to do it.
>> > This is currently IRC and ML. Some of Korean dev has difficulties to
>> use
>> > IRC. However, there is not a perfect tool out there in this world, and
>> > we accept all the reason why the community selected IRC as official tool
>> >
>> > But, that being said, There are some things I am facing with IRC from
>> > here in Korea
>> >
>> > As a person from Asia, I do have some of pain points. Because of time
>> > differences, often, I have to do achieve searching since most of
>> > conversations happened while I am sleeping. IRC is not a good tool to
>> > perform "search backlog". Although there is message archive you can
>> dig,
>> > it is still hard. This is a problem. I do love to see any technical
>> > solution for me to efficiently and easily go through irc backlog, like
>> > most of modern chat tools.
>> >
>> > Secondly, IRC is not a popular one even in dev community here in Korea.
>> > In addition, in order to properly use irc, you need to do extra work,
>> > something like setting up bouncing server. I had to do google search to
>> > figure out how to use it.
>> I think part of the disconnect here is that people have different ideas
>> about what IRC (and chat in general) is for.
>> For me it's a way to conduct synchronous conversations. These tend to go
>> badly on the mailing list (really long threads of 1 sentence per
>> message) or on code review (have to keep refreshing), so it's good that
>> we have another tool to do this. I answer a lot of user questions,
>> clarify comments on patches, and obviously join team meetings in IRC.
>> The key part is 'synchronous' though. If I'm not there, the conversation
>> is not going to be synchronous. I don't run a bouncer, although I
>> generally leave my computer running when I'm not working so you'll often
>> (but not always) be able to ping me, and I'll usually look back to see
>> if it was something important. Otherwise it's 50-50 whether I'll even
>> bother to read scrollback, and certainly not for more than a couple of
>> channels.
>> Other people, however, have a completely different perspective: they
>> want a place where they are guaranteed to be reachable at any time (even
>> if they don't see it until later) and the entire record is always right
>> there. I think Slack was built for those kinds of people. You would have
>> to drag me kicking and screaming into Slack even if it weren't
>> proprietary software.
>> I don't know where WeChat falls on that spectrum. But maybe part of the
>> issue is that we're creating too high an expectation of what it means to
>> participate in the community (e.g. if you're not going to set up a
>> bouncer and be reachable 24/7 then you might as well not get involved at
>> all - this is 100% untrue). I've seen several assertions, including in
>> the review, that any decisions must be documented on the mailing list or
>> IRC, and I'm not sure I agree. IMHO, any decisions should be documented
>> on the mailing list, period.
>> I'd love to see more participation on the mailing list. Since it is
>> asynchronous already it's somewhat friendlier to those in APAC time
>> zones (although there are still issues, real or perceived, with
>> decisions being reached before anyone on that side of the world has a
>> chance to weigh in), and a lot easier than carrying on a conversation in
>> real time for those who don't speak English natively. And while can
>> still be technical challenges with mailing lists, almost every company
>> allows email through their corporate firewall.
>> AIUI though, augmenting IRC was not the point of the proposal. Rather, I
>> think it was for TC members to 'fly the flag' in WeChat to be more
>> visible and available to the portion of the community that is there.
>> > In that sense, It would be great to have
>> > OpenStack community provided, simplified and well-written, written in
>> > multiple language, IRC guide docs. Alternatively, if OpenStack
>> community
>> > can provide a good web-based irc client tool, that would be fantastic.
>> I haven't tried it but: https://webchat.freenode.net/
>> > As I described the above, we can certainly have a healthy discussion on
>> > what different and real problems we are facing from Asia.
>> > However, I don't think this TC resolution is good way to do that.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > --
>> >
>> > Jaesuk Ahn, Team Lead
>> > Virtualization SW Lab, SW R&D Center
>> >
>> > SK Telecom
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > openstack-sigs mailing list
>> > openstack-sigs at lists.openstack.org
>> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-sigs
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> openstack-sigs mailing list
>> openstack-sigs at lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-sigs
> --
> Kind regards,
> Melvin Hillsman
> mrhillsman at gmail.com
> mobile: (832) 264-2646
> _______________________________________________
> openstack-sigs mailing list
> openstack-sigs at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-sigs

Zhipeng (Howard) Huang

Standard Engineer
IT Standard & Patent/IT Product Line
Huawei Technologies Co,. Ltd
Email: huangzhipeng at huawei.com
Office: Huawei Industrial Base, Longgang, Shenzhen

Research Assistant
Mobile Ad-Hoc Network Lab, Calit2
University of California, Irvine
Email: zhipengh at uci.edu
Office: Calit2 Building Room 2402

OpenStack, OPNFV, OpenDaylight, OpenCompute Aficionado
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