[openstack-dev] [oslo] Oslo PTG Summary

Doug Hellmann doug at doughellmann.com
Mon Mar 12 15:54:35 UTC 2018

I can’t see 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vQpaSSm7Amk9q4sBEAUi_IpyJ4l07qd3t5T_BPZkdLWfYbtSpSmF7obSB1qRGA65wjiiq2Sb7H2ylJo/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&slide=id.p <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vQpaSSm7Amk9q4sBEAUi_IpyJ4l07qd3t5T_BPZkdLWfYbtSpSmF7obSB1qRGA65wjiiq2Sb7H2ylJo/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&slide=id.p>

> On Mar 12, 2018, at 11:39 AM, Ken Giusti <kgiusti at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Josh - I'm able to view all of them, but I probably have special
> google powers ;)
> Which links are broken for you?
> thanks,
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:53 PM, Joshua Harlow <harlowja at fastmail.com> wrote:
>> Can we get some of those doc links opened.
>> 'You need permission to access this published document.' I am getting for a
>> few of them :(
>> Ben Nemec wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Here's my summary of the discussions we had in the Oslo room at the PTG.
>>> Please feel free to reply with any additions if I missed something or
>>> correct anything I've misrepresented.
>>> oslo.config drivers for secret management
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> The oslo.config implementation is in progress, while the Castellan
>>> driver still needs to be written. We want to land this early in Rocky as
>>> it is a significant change in architecture for oslo.config and we want
>>> it to be well-exercised before release.
>>> There are discussions with the TripleO team around adding support for
>>> this feature to its deployment tooling and there will be a functional
>>> test job for the Castellan driver with Custodia.
>>> There is a weekly meeting in #openstack-meeting-3 on Tuesdays at 1600
>>> UTC for discussion of this feature.
>>> oslo.config driver implementation: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/513844
>>> spec:
>>> https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/oslo-specs/specs/queens/oslo-config-drivers.html
>>> Custodia key management support for Castellan:
>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/515190/
>>> "stable" libraries
>>> ------------------
>>> Some of the Oslo libraries are in a mature state where there are very
>>> few, if any, meaningful changes to them. With the removal of the
>>> requirements sync process in Rocky, we may need to change the release
>>> process for these libraries. My understanding was that there were no
>>> immediate action items for this, but it was something we need to be
>>> aware of.
>>> dropping support for mox3
>>> -------------------------
>>> There was some concern that no one from the Oslo team is actually in a
>>> position to support mox3 if something were to break (such as happened in
>>> some libraries with Python 3.6). Since there is a community goal to
>>> remove mox from all OpenStack projects in Rocky this will hopefully not
>>> be a long-term problem, but there was some discussion that if projects
>>> needed to keep mox for some reason that they would be asked to provide a
>>> maintainer for mox3. This topic is kind of on hold pending the outcome
>>> of the community goal this cycle.
>>> automatic configuration migration on upgrade
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> There is a desire for oslo.config to provide a mechanism to
>>> automatically migrate deprecated options to their new location on
>>> version upgrades. This is a fairly complex topic that I can't cover
>>> adequately in a summary email, but there is a spec proposed at
>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/520043/ and POC changes at
>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/526314/ and
>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/526261/
>>> One outcome of the discussion was that in the initial version we would
>>> not try to handle complex migrations, such as the one that happened when
>>> we combined all of the separate rabbit connection opts into a single
>>> connection string. To start with we will just raise a warning to the
>>> user that they need to handle those manually, but a templated or
>>> hook-based method of automating those migrations could be added as a
>>> follow-up if there is sufficient demand.
>>> oslo.messaging plans
>>> --------------------
>>> There was quite a bit discussed under this topic. I'm going to break it
>>> down into sub-topics for clarity.
>>> oslo.messaging heartbeats
>>> =========================
>>> Everyone seemed to be in favor of this feature, so we anticipate
>>> development moving forward in Rocky. There is an initial patch proposed
>>> at https://review.openstack.org/546763
>>> We felt that it should be possible to opt in and out of the feature, and
>>> that the configuration should be done at the application level. This
>>> should _not_ be an operator decision as they do not have the knowledge
>>> to make it sanely.
>>> There was also a desire to have a TTL for messages.
>>> bug cleanup
>>> ===========
>>> There are quite a few launchpad bugs open against oslo.messaging that
>>> were reported against old, now unsupported versions. Since we have the
>>> launchpad bug expirer enabled in Oslo the action item proposed for such
>>> bugs was to mark them incomplete and ask the reporter to confirm that
>>> they still occur against a supported version. This way bugs that don't
>>> reproduce or where the reporter has lost interest will eventually be
>>> closed automatically, but bugs that do still exist can be updated with
>>> more current information.
>>> deprecations
>>> ============
>>> The Pika driver will be deprecated in Rocky. To our knowledge, no one
>>> has ever used it and there are no known benefits over the existing
>>> Rabbit driver.
>>> Once again, the ZeroMQ driver was proposed for deprecation as well. The
>>> CI jobs for ZMQ have been broken for a while, and there doesn't seem to
>>> be much interest in maintaining them. Furthermore, the breakage seems to
>>> be a fundamental problem with the driver that would require non-trivial
>>> work to fix.
>>> Given that ZMQ has been a consistent pain point in oslo.messaging over
>>> the past few years, it was proposed that if someone does step forward
>>> and want to maintain it going forward then we should split the driver
>>> off into its own library which could then have its own core team and
>>> iterate independently of oslo.messaging. However, at this time the plan
>>> is to propose the deprecation and start that discussion first.
>>> CI
>>> ==
>>> Need to migrate oslo.messaging to zuulv3 native jobs. The
>>> openstackclient library was proposed as a good example of how to do so.
>>> We also want to have voting hybrid messaging jobs (where the
>>> notification and rpc messages are sent via different backends). We will
>>> define a devstack job variant that other projects can turn on if desired.
>>> We also want to add amqp1 support to pifpaf for functional testing.
>>> Low level messaging API
>>> =======================
>>> A proposal for a new oslo.messaging API to expose lower level messaging
>>> functionality was proposed. There is a presentation at
>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1mCOGwROmpJvsBgCTFKo4PnK6s8DkDVCp1qnRnoKL_Yo/edit?usp=sharing
>>> This seemed to generally be well-received by the room, and dragonflow
>>> and neutron reviewers were suggested for the spec.
>>> Kafka
>>> =====
>>> Andy Smith gave an update on the status of the Kafka driver. Currently
>>> it is still experimental, and intended to be used for notifications
>>> only. There is a presentation with more details in
>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vQpaSSm7Amk9q4sBEAUi_IpyJ4l07qd3t5T_BPZkdLWfYbtSpSmF7obSB1qRGA65wjiiq2Sb7H2ylJo/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&slide=id.p
>>> testing for Edge/FEMDC use cases
>>> ================================
>>> Matthieu Simonin gave a presentation about the testing he has done
>>> related to messaging in the Edge/FEMDC scenario where messaging targets
>>> might be widely distributed. The slides can be found at
>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LcF8WcihRDOGmOPIU1aUlkFd1XkHXEnaxIoLmRN4iXw/edit#slide=id.p3
>>> In short, there is a desire to build clouds that have widely distributed
>>> nodes such that content can be delivered to users from a location as
>>> close as possible. This puts a lot of pressure on the messaging layer as
>>> compute nodes (for example) could be halfway around the world from the
>>> control nodes, which is problematic for a broker-based system such as
>>> Rabbit. There is some very interesting data comparing Rabbit with a more
>>> distributed AMQP1 system based on qpid-dispatch-router. In short, the
>>> distributed system performed much better for this use case, although
>>> there was still some concern raised about the memory usage on the client
>>> side with both drivers. Some followup is needed on the oslo.messaging
>>> side to make sure we aren't leaking/wasting resources in some messaging
>>> scenarios.
>>> For further details I suggest taking a look at the presentation.
>>> mutable configuration
>>> ---------------------
>>> This is also a community goal for Rocky, and Chang Bo is driving its
>>> adoption. There was some discussion of how to test it, and also that we
>>> should provide an example of turning on mutability for the debug option
>>> since that is the target of the community goal. The cinder patch can be
>>> found here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/464028/ Turns out it's
>>> really simple!
>>> Nova is also using this functionality for more complex options related
>>> to upgrades, so that would be a good place to look for more advanced use
>>> cases.
>>> Full documentation for the mutable config options is at
>>> https://docs.openstack.org/oslo.config/latest/reference/mutable.html
>>> The goal status is being tracked in
>>> https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001545
>>> Chang Bo was also going to talk to Lance about possibly coming up with a
>>> burndown chart like the one he had for the policy in code work.
>>> oslo healthcheck middleware
>>> ---------------------------
>>> As this ended up being the only major topic for the afternoon, the
>>> session was unfortunately lightly attended. However, the self-healing
>>> SIG was talking about related topics at the same time so we ended up
>>> moving to that room and had a good discussion.
>>> Overall the feature seemed to be well-received. There is some security
>>> concern with exposing service information over an un-authenticated
>>> endpoint, but because there is no authentication supported by the health
>>> checking functionality in things like Kubernetes or HAProxy this is
>>> unavoidable. The feature won't be mandatory, so if this exposure is
>>> unacceptable it can be turned off (with a corresponding loss of
>>> functionality, of course).
>>> There was also some discussion of dropping the asynchronous nature of
>>> the checks in the initial version in order to keep the complexity to a
>>> minimum. Asynchronous testing can always be added later if it proves
>>> necessary.
>>> The full spec is at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/531456
>>> oslo.config strict validation
>>> -----------------------------
>>> I actually had discussions with multiple people about this during the
>>> week. In both cases, they were just looking for a minimal amount of
>>> validation that would catch an error such at "devug=True". Such a
>>> validation might be fairly simple to write now that we have the
>>> YAML-based sample config with (ideally) information about all the
>>> options available to set in a project. It should be possible to compare
>>> the options set in the config file with the ones listed in the sample
>>> config and raise warnings for any that don't exist.
>>> There is also a more complete validation spec at
>>> http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/oslo-specs/specs/ocata/oslo-validator.html
>>> and a patch proposed at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/384559/
>>> Unfortunately there has been little movement on that as of late, so it
>>> might be worthwhile to implement something more minimalist initially and
>>> then build from there. The existing patch is quite significant and
>>> difficult to review.
>>> Conclusion
>>> ----------
>>> I feel like there were a lot of good discussions at the PTG and we have
>>> plenty of work to keep the small Oslo team busy for the Rocky cycle. :-)
>>> Thanks to everyone who participated and I look forward to seeing how
>>> much progress we've made at the next Summit and PTG.
>>> -Ben
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> -- 
> Ken Giusti  (kgiusti at gmail.com)
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