[openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-10

Joshua Harlow harlowja at fastmail.com
Thu Mar 8 17:11:25 UTC 2018

Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Matt Riedemann wrote:
>> I don't get the inward/outward thing. First two days of the old design
>> summit (ops summit?) format was all cross-project stuff (docs, upgrades,
>> testing, ops feedback, etc). That's the same as what happens at the PTG
>> now too. The last three days of the old design summit (and now PTG) are
>> vertical project discussion for the most part, but Thursday has also
>> become a de-facto cross-project day for a lot of teams (nova/cinder,
>> nova/neutron, nova/ironic all happened on Thursday). I'm not sure what
>> is happening at the Forum events that is so wildly different, or more
>> productive, than what we can do at the PTG - and arguably do it better
>> at the PTG because of fewer distractions to be giving talks, talking to
>> customers, and having time-boxed 40 minute slots.
> The PTG has always been about taking the team discussions that happened
> at the Ops Summit / Design Summit to have them in a more productive
> environment.

I am just going to say it but can we *please* stop distinguishing 
between ops and devs (a ops summit, like why); the fact that these 
emails even continue to have the word op or dev or ops communicate with 
devs and then devs go do something that may work (hint this kind of 
feedback loop is wrong) for ops pisses me off. The world has moved 
beyond this kind of separation and openstack needs to as well... IMHO 
projects that still rely on this kind of interaction are dead in the 
water. If you aren't as a developer at least trying to operate even a 
small openstack cloud (even a personal one) then you really shouldn't be 
continuing as a developer in openstack...

> Beyond the suboptimal productivity (due to too many distractions / other
> commitments), the problem with the old Design Summit was that it
> prevented team members from making the best use of the Summit event. You
> would travel to a place where all our community gets together, only to
> isolate yourself with your teammates trying to get stuff done. That was
> silly. You should use the time there to engage *outside* of your team.
> And by that I don't mean inter-team work, or participating to other
> groups like SIGs or horizontal teams. I mean giving talks, presenting
> the work you do (and how you do it) to newcomers, watching talks,
> engaging with happy users, learning about the state of our ecosystem,
> and discussing cross-community issues with a larger section of our
> community (at the Forum).
> The context switch between this inward work (work with your team, or
> work within any transversal work group you're interested in), and this
> outward work (engaging with other groups you're not a part of, listening
> to newcomers) is expensive. It's hard to take the time to *listen* when
> you try to get your work for the next 6 months organized and done.
> Oh, and in the above paragraphs, I'm not distinguishing "devs" from
> "ops". This applies to all teams, to any contributor engaged in making
> OpenStack a reality. Having the Public Cloud WG team meet at the PTG was
> great, and we should definitely have ANY OpenStack team wanting to meet
> and get things done at future PTGs.

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