Open Stack

Tried hard to avoid this thread, but this message is so much wrong..

On 07/03/2018 09:48 PM, Fox, Kevin M wrote:
> I don't dispute trivial, but a self hosting k8s on bare metal is not incredibly hard. In fact, it is easier then you might think. k8s is a platform for deploying/managing services. Guess what you need to provision bare metal? Just a few microservices. A dhcp service. dhcpd in a daemonset works well. some pxe infrastructure. pixiecore with a simple http backend works pretty well in practice. a service to provide installation instructions. nginx server handing out kickstart files for example. and a place to fetch rpms from in case you don't have internet access or want to ensure uniformity. nginx server with a mirror yum repo. Its even possible to seed it on minikube and sluff it off to its own cluster.
> 
> The main hard part about it is currently no one is shipping a reference implementation of the above. That may change...
> 
> It is certainly much much easier then deploying enough OpenStack to get a self hosting ironic working.

Side note: no, it's not. What you describe is similarly hard to installing 
standalone ironic from scratch and much harder than using bifrost for 
everything. Especially when you try to do it in production. Especially with 
unusual operating requirements ("no TFTP servers on my network").

Also, sorry, I cannot resist:
"Guess what you need to orchestrate containers? Just a few things. A container 
runtime. Docker works well. some remove execution tooling. ansible works pretty 
well in practice. It is certainly much much easier then deploying enough k8s to 
get a self hosting containers orchestration working."

Such oversimplications won't bring us anywhere. Sometimes things are hard 
because they ARE hard. Where are people complaining that installing a full 
GNU/Linux distributions from upstream tarballs is hard? How many operators here 
use LFS as their distro? If we are okay with using a distro for GNU/Linux, why 
using a distro for OpenStack causes so much contention?

> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: Jay Pipes [jaypipes at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2018 10:06 AM
> To: openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-26
> 
> On 07/02/2018 03:31 PM, Zane Bitter wrote:
>> On 28/06/18 15:09, Fox, Kevin M wrote:
>>>    * made the barrier to testing/development as low as 'curl
>>> http://......minikube; minikube start' (this spurs adoption and
>>> contribution)
>>
>> That's not so different from devstack though.
>>
>>>    * not having large silo's in deployment projects allowed better
>>> communication on common tooling.
>>>    * Operator focused architecture, not project based architecture.
>>> This simplifies the deployment situation greatly.
>>>    * try whenever possible to focus on just the commons and push vendor
>>> specific needs to plugins so vendors can deal with vendor issues
>>> directly and not corrupt the core.
>>
>> I agree with all of those, but to be fair to OpenStack, you're leaving
>> out arguably the most important one:
>>
>>       * Installation instructions start with "assume a working datacenter"
>>
>> They have that luxury; we do not. (To be clear, they are 100% right to
>> take full advantage of that luxury. Although if there are still folks
>> who go around saying that it's a trivial problem and OpenStackers must
>> all be idiots for making it look so difficult, they should really stop
>> embarrassing themselves.)
> 
> This.
> 
> There is nothing trivial about the creation of a working datacenter --
> never mind a *well-running* datacenter. Comparing Kubernetes to
> OpenStack -- particular OpenStack's lower levels -- is missing this
> fundamental point and ends up comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> Best,
> -jay
> 
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