[openstack-dev] [all] Ongoing spam in Freenode IRC channels

Samuel Cassiba s at cassiba.com
Wed Aug 1 16:32:38 UTC 2018


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 5:21 AM, Andrey Kurilin <andr.kurilin at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can make an assumption that for marketing reasons, Slack Inc can propose
> extended Free plan.
> But anyway, even with default one the only thing which can limit us is
> `10,000 searchable messages` which is bigger than 0 (freenode doesn't store
> messages).
>
>
> Why I like slack? because a lot of people are familar with it (a lot of
> companies use it as like some opensource communities, like k8s )
>
> PS: I realize that OpenStack Community will never go away from Freenode and
> IRC, but I do not want to stay silent.
>

My response wasn't intended to become a wall of text, but my
individual experience dovetails with the ongoing thread. The intent
here is not to focus on one thing or the other, but to highlight some
of the strengths and drawbacks.

This is a great proposal on-paper. As you said, lots of people are
already familiar with the technology and concept at this point. It
generally seems to make sense.

The unfortunate reality is that with something that has N searchable
messages -- that counts for the whole instance -- it will be exceeded
within the first few days due to the initial surge, requiring
tweaking, if possible. Ten thousand messages is not much for a large,
distributed, culturally diverse group heavily entrenched in IRC, even
if it is a nice looking number. There should not be a limit on
recorded history such as that, lest it be forgotten every few months.

>From a technological perspective, that puts both such a proposal and
the existing solution at direct odds. Having a proprietary third-party
be the gatekeepers to chat-based outlets is not a good prospect over
the long-term. For recorded history, eavesdrop, by far, exceeds that
imposed value, by sheer virtue of it existing.

In freemium offerings, much knowledge gets blown to the aether in
exchange for gifs and emoji reactions. In these situations, of course,
the users are, by default, the product. The long-term effects which
can have lasting effects on a large, multicultural, open source
project already under siege on certain fronts.

Production OpenStack deployments have usually hitched their wagon to
OpenStack: The Project for a multi-year effort at a minimum, which can
and tends to involve some level of activity in parts of the community
over that time. People come and go, but the long-term goals have
generally remained the same.

While the long-term ramifications of large FLOSS communities being on
freemium proprietary platforms are just beginning to be felt, they're
not quite to the point of inertia yet. Short of paying obscene amounts
of money for chat, FLOSS alternatives need to be championed, far above
any proprietary options with a free welcome mat, no matter how awesome
and feature-rich they may be.

Making a change of this order, this far in, is a drastic undertaking.
I've been witness and participant in a similar migration, which took
place a few years ago. It was heralded with much fanfare, a new day
for engagement. It was full-on party parrot, until it wasn't.

To this day, there are still IRC stragglers, with one or two
experienced -- sometimes self-appointed -- individuals that
tirelessly, asynchronously, answer softball questions and redirect to
the other outlets for the more involved.

Extended community channels, like development channels, are just kind
of left to rot, with a topic that says "Go over here ---->". There is
very little moderation, which develops a certain narrative all on its
own.

Today, that community on the free offering is quieter, more vibrant
and immediately knowledgeable, albeit at the expense of recorded
history. Questions take on a recurring theme at times, requiring
one-to-one or one-to-many engagement for every question. The person
wanting some fish tonight doesn't have a clean lake or stream to catch
their dinner.

Unfortunately, some of those long-term effects are beginning to be
felt as of recent, after "everyone" is off of IRC. Fewer long-term
maintainers are sticking around, and even fewer are stepping up to
replace them. On the upshot, there are more new users always finding
their way to the slick proprietary chat group.

-scas



More information about the OpenStack-dev mailing list