[openstack-dev] [i18n] [nova] understanding log domain change - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500
ihrachys at redhat.com
Mon Mar 6 17:16:17 UTC 2017
I have a question: why can't operators just switch to en_US to execute services?
Another question: what makes log messages so much different from API
responses? Couldn't you make the same argument that it's easier to
find a reason for a request failure if the error message is in
English? Should we then just stop translating any messages and say
English is the only OpenStack language we recommend?
I try to see what makes logs so much different from API error
messages, and why operators cannot pick the right language based on
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Ian Y. Choi <ianyrchoi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doug Hellmann wrote on 3/7/2017 12:53 AM:
>> Excerpts from Sean Dague's message of 2017-03-06 09:06:18 -0500:
>>> On 03/06/2017 08:43 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
>>>> On 2017-03-06 14:03, Sean Dague wrote:
>>>>> I'm trying to understand the implications of
>>>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500. And the comment in the linked
>>>>> ">> Yes, we decided some time ago to not translate the log files
>>>>> anymore and
>>>>>>> thus our tools do not handle them anymore - and in general, we remove
>>>>>>> these kind of files."
>>>>> Does that mean that all the _LE, _LI, _LW stuff in projects should be
>>>>> fully removed? Nova currently enforces those things are there -
>>>>> and want to make sure our tools aren't making us do work that the i18n
>>>>> team is ignoring and throwing away.
>>>> Sean, this was removed as followup to:
>>>> Let me copy Ian as i18n PTL,
>>> That all seems reasonable, and I'm happy to follow the i18n team's lead
>>> here. It is however a significant reversal of policy, and there is
>>> substantial code infrastructure in projects (like Nova) to support the
>>> old policy.
>>> So if this is new policy, a much wider dissemination of it would be
>>> welcomed, as it means we can purge this infrastructure from projects
>>> like Nova.
>> Yes, we went to a great deal of trouble to enable log translations,
>> so I'm surprised to see it being dropped to quickly. I don't
>> necessarily disagree with the decision, because I know translator
>> time is limited. But it would be nice to have the discussion here,
> +1 and for such discussions including openstack-i18n at lists.openstack.org
> mailing list would be also nice :)
> On Barcelona Design Summit, there were I18n contributor meetup and I18n team
> members discussed a lot.
> One of things was not to translate log-level strings for server projects.
> Note that such decision was made not because translator time is limited.
> Log messages are important to better identify which errors are being posed
> and most operators (+ developers)
> diagnose and start to solve error situations from the log messages.
> I18n team previously translated log messages a lot especially thanks to
> translation contribution from IBM. (AFAIK)
> However, after then, there have been some voices - why I18n team translated
> log messages?
> After listening to the voices in details, I18n team identified that the
> background of such voices was related with searching log messages on
> Searching English log messages on the Internet will retrieve more number of
> results than searching translated log messages on the Internet.
> Translating log messages now has two different point of views:
> - Will be useful for OpenStack users to better understand log messages in
> details with translated log messages?
> - Or will not be useful for OpenStack users because the original log
> messages will have better chance to find solutions who occurred the similar
> cases on the Internet?
> I18n team discussed with such point of views and on Barcelona Summit the
> latter point would be more important than the former point.
> Also, it would be just a point of view from PTL, but it is difficult for me
> to encourage to contribution translations which have such kind of
> Now I would like to listen again to not only developers, but also operators
> and translators - for log string translation.
> If someone thinks that the former point would be more important than the
> latter point, please share through this mailing list to reconsider the
> current decision.
> With many thanks,
>> instead of on a list most of the community isn't subscribed to, so
>> everyone involved can understand the reason for the change and so
>> the folks who asked for it originally can be included in the
>> conversation. As Sean points out, the policy change has a lot of
>> other implications about how logging is handled throughout the
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
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