[openstack-dev] [security] [salt] Removal of Security and OpenStackSalt project teams from the Big Tent
Davanum Srinivas
davanum at gmail.com
Fri Sep 23 03:23:16 UTC 2016
Steven,
Fair point.
Thanks,
Dims
On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:04 PM, Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake at cisco.com> wrote:
> Dims,
>
> This isn’t any of my particular business except it could affect emerging technology projects (which I find important to OpenStack’s future) negatively – so I thought I’d chime in.
>
> A lack of activity in a specs repo doesn’t mean much to me. For example, as Kolla was an emerging project we didn’t use any specs process at all (or very rarely). There is a reason behind this. Now that Kolla is stable and reliable and we feel we are not an emerging project, we plan to make use of a specs repo starting in Ocata.
>
> I have no particular concerns with the other commentary – but please don’t judge a project by activity or lack of activity in one repo of its deliverables. Judge it holistically (You are judging holistically. I believe a lack of one repo’s activity shouldn’t be part of that judgement).
>
> Regards
> -steve
>
>
> On 9/21/16, 2:08 PM, "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jakub,
>
> Please see below.
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Jakub Pavlik <jakub.pavlik at tcpcloud.eu> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > it took us 2 years of hard working to get these official. OpenStack-Salt is
> > now used by around 40 production deployments and it is focused very on
> > operation and popularity is growing. You are removing the project week after
> > one of top contributor announced that they will use that as part of
> > solution. We made a mistakes, however I do not think that is reason to
> > remove us. I do no think that quality of the project is measured like this.
> > Our PTL got ill and did not do properly his job for last 3 weeks, but this
> > can happen anybody.
> >
> > It is up to you. If you think that we are useless for community, then
> > remove us and we will have to continue outside of this community. However
> > growing successful use cases will not be under official openstack community,
> > which makes my feeling bad.
>
> Data points so far are:
> 1. No response during Barcelona planning for rooms
> 2. Lack of candidates for PTL election
> 3. No activity in the releases/ repository hence no entries in
> https://releases.openstack.org/
> 4. Meetings are not so regular?
> http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/ (supposed
> to be weekly)
> 5. Is the specs repo really active?
> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-salt-specs/ is the
> work being done elsewhere?
> 6. Is there an effort to add stuff to the CI jobs running on openstack
> infrastructure? (can't seem to find much
> http://codesearch.openstack.org/?q=salt&i=nope&files=zuul%2Flayout.yaml&repos=project-config)
>
> I'll stop here and switch to #openstack-salt channel to help work you
> all through if there is a consensus/willingness from the
> openstack-salt team that there's significant work to be done. If you
> think you are better off not on the governance, that would be your
> call as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Dims
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jakub
> >
> >
> > On 21.9.2016 21:03, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> >>
> >> Excerpts from Filip Pytloun's message of 2016-09-21 20:36:42 +0200:
> >>>
> >>> On 2016/09/21 13:23, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The idea of splitting the contributor list comes up pretty regularly
> >>>> and we rehash the same suggestions each time. Given that what we
> >>>> have now worked fine for 57 of the 59 offical teams (the Astara
> >>>> team knew in advance it would not have a PTL running, and Piet had
> >>>> some sort of technical issue submitting his candidacy for the UX
> >>>> team), I'm not yet convinced that we need to make large-scale changes
> >>>> to our community communication standard practices in support of the
> >>>> 2 remaining teams.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's not to say that the system we have now is perfect, but we
> >>>> can't realistically support multiple systems at the same time. We
> >>>> need everyone to use the same system, otherwise we have (even more)
> >>>> fragmented communication. So, we either need everyone to agree to
> >>>> some new system and then have people step forward to implement it,
> >>>> or we need to all agree to do our best to use the system we have
> >>>> in place now.
> >>>
> >>> I think it may work as is (with proper mail filters), but as someone
> >>> already
> >>> mentioned in this thread it would be better to have someone more
> >>> experienced
> >>> in Openstack community projects as a core team member or PTL to catch all
> >>> these things otherwise it may happen that inexperienced PTL/team just
> >>> miss
> >>> something like now.
> >>
> >> If the team needs help, please ask for it. We should be able to find
> >> someone to do a little mentoring and provide some guidance.
> >>
> >>> Still I don't think it's such a big issue to just fire project from Big
> >>> Tent -
> >>> who will benefit from that? Again someone already mentioned what will it
> >>> mean
> >>> for such team (loss of potencial developers, etc.).
> >>> Moreover for teams who are actively working on project as it seems that
> >>> both
> >>> OpenStackSalt and Security teams do.
> >>
> >> Signing up to be a part of the big tent is not free. Membership comes
> >> with expectations and obligations. Failing to meet those may be an
> >> indication that the team isn't ready, or that membership is not a good
> >> fit.
> >>
> >>> And I thought that real work on a project is our primary goal.. this
> >>> situation
> >>> is like loosing job when I left dirty coffee cup at my workspace.
> >>
> >> I hope you consider team leadership and community participation to
> >> be more important than your analogy implies.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >>>> Did your release liaison follow the instructions to make that happen?
> >>>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/releases/tree/README.rst
> >>>
> >>> That seems to be the reason. There was new release planned with support
> >>> for
> >>> containerized deployment which would follow that guide (as first releases
> >>> were
> >>> done during/shortly after openstack-salt move to Big Tent).
> >>> As mentioned above - more experienced PTL would be helpful here and we
> >>> are
> >>> currently talking with people who could fit that position.
> >>>
> >>>>>> I see no emails tagged with [salt] on the mailing list since March of
> >>>>>> this year, aside from this thread. Are you using a different communication
> >>>>>> channel for team coordination? You mention IRC, but how are new contributors
> >>>>>> expected to find you?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, we are using openstack-salt channel and openstack meetings over
> >>>>> IRC. This channel is mentioned eg. in readme here [1] and community
> >>>>> meetings page [2] which are on weekly basis (logs [3]).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We also had a couple of people comming to team IRC talking to us about
> >>>>> project
> >>>>> so I believe they can find the way to contact us even without our heavy
> >>>>> activity at openstack-dev (which should be better as I admitted).
> >>>>
> >>>> That works great for folks in your timezones. It's less useful for
> >>>> anyone who isn't around at the same time as you, which is one reason
> >>>> our community emphasizes using email communications. Email gives
> >>>> you asynchronous discussions for timezone coverage, allows folks
> >>>> who are traveling or off work for a period to catch up on and
> >>>> participate in discussions later, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>>> [1] https://github.com/openstack/openstack-salt
> >>>>> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-salt
> >>>>> [3] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of course I don't want to excuse our fault. In case it's not too
> >>>>>>> late,
> >>>>>>> we will try to be more active in mailing lists like openstack-dev and
> >>>>>>> not miss such important events next time.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1] http://stackalytics.com/?module=openstacksalt-group
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Filip
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Thierry Carrez
> >>>>>>> <thierry at openstack.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As announced previously[1][2], there were no PTL candidates within
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> election deadline for a number of official OpenStack project teams:
> >>>>>>>> Astara, UX, OpenStackSalt and Security.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In the Astara case, the current team working on it would like to
> >>>>>>>> abandon
> >>>>>>>> the project (and let it be available for any new team who wishes to
> >>>>>>>> take
> >>>>>>>> it away). A change should be proposed really soon now to go in that
> >>>>>>>> direction.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In the UX case, the current PTL (Piet Kruithof) very quickly
> >>>>>>>> reacted,
> >>>>>>>> explained his error and asked to be considered for the position for
> >>>>>>>> Ocata. The TC will officialize his nomination at the next meeting,
> >>>>>>>> together with the newly elected PTLs.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That leaves us with OpenStackSalt and Security, where nobody reacted
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> the announcement that we are missing PTL candidates. That points to
> >>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>> real disconnect between those teams and the rest of the community.
> >>>>>>>> Even
> >>>>>>>> if you didn't have the election schedule in mind, it was pretty hard
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> miss all the PTL nominations in the email last week.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The majority of TC members present at the meeting yesterday
> >>>>>>>> suggested
> >>>>>>>> that those project teams should be removed from the Big Tent, with
> >>>>>>>> their
> >>>>>>>> design summit space allocation slightly reduced to match that (and
> >>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>> room for other not-yet-official teams).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In the case of OpenStackSalt, it's a relatively new addition, and if
> >>>>>>>> they get their act together they could probably be re-proposed in
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> future. In the case of Security, it points to a more significant
> >>>>>>>> disconnect (since it's not the first time the PTL misses the
> >>>>>>>> nomination
> >>>>>>>> call). We definitely still need to care about Security (and we also
> >>>>>>>> need
> >>>>>>>> a home for the Vulnerability Management team), but I think the
> >>>>>>>> "Security
> >>>>>>>> team" acts more like a workgroup than as an official project team,
> >>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>> evidenced by the fact that nobody in that team reacted to the lack
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> PTL nomination, or the announcement that the team missed the bus.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The suggested way forward there would be to remove the "Security
> >>>>>>>> project
> >>>>>>>> team", have the Vulnerability Management Team file to be its own
> >>>>>>>> official project team (in the same vein as the stable maintenance
> >>>>>>>> team),
> >>>>>>>> and have Security be just a workgroup rather than a project team.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thoughts, comments ?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-
> >>>>>>>> September/103904.html
> >>>>>>>> [2]
> >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-
> >>>>>>>> September/103939.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
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> >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>
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> >>
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Jakub Pavlik
> > CTO
> >
> > [tcp ◕ cloud]
> >
> > +420 602 177 027
> > jakub.pavlik at tcpcloud.eu
> >
> > tcp cloud a.s.
> > Thamova 16
> > 186 00 Praha 8 - Karlin
> > Czech republic
> > http://tcpcloud.eu
> > http://opentcpcloud.org
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims
>
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