[openstack-dev] [tc][cinder] tag:follows-standard-deprecation should be removed

John Griffith john.griffith8 at gmail.com
Fri Aug 12 17:33:35 UTC 2016

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Walter A. Boring IV <walter.boring at hpe.com
> wrote:

> I was leaning towards a separate repo until I started thinking about all
> the overhead and complications this would cause. It's another repo for
> cores to watch. It would cause everyone extra complication in setting up
> their CI, which is already one of the biggest roadblocks. It would make
> it a little harder to do things like https://review.openstack.org/297140
> and https://review.openstack.org/346470 to be able to generate this:http://docs.openstack.org/developer/cinder/drivers.html. Plus more infra
> setup, more moving parts to break, and just generally more
> complications.
> All things that can be solved for sure. I just question whether it would
> be worth having that overhead. Frankly, there are better things I'd like
> to spend my time on.
> I think at this point my first preference would actually be to define a
> new tag. This addresses both the driver removal issue as well as the
> backporting of driver bug fixes. I would like to see third party drivers
> recognized and treated as being different, because in reality they are
> very different than the rest of the code. Having something like
> follows_deprecation_but_has_third_party_drivers_that_dont would make a
> clear statement that their is a vendor component to this project that
> really has to be treated differently and has different concerns
> deployers need to be aware of.
> Barring that, I think my next choice would be to remove the tag. That
> would really be unfortunate as we do want to make it clear to users that
> Cinder will not arbitrarily break APIs or do anything between releases
> without warning when it comes to non-third party drivers. But if that is
> what we need to do to effectively communicate what to expect from
> Cinder, then I'm OK with that.
> My last choice (of the ones I'm favorable towards) would be marking a
> driver as untested/unstable/abandoned/etc rather than removing it. We
> could flag these a certain way and have then spam the logs like crazy
> after upgrade to make it very and painfully clear that they are not
> being maintained. But as Duncan pointed out, this doesn't have as much
> impact for getting vendor attention. It's amazing the level of executive
> involvement that can happen after a patch is put up for driver removal
> due to non-compliance.
> Sean
> __________________________________________________________________________
> I believe there is a compromise that we could implement in Cinder that
> enables us to have a deprecation
> of unsupported drivers that aren't meeting the Cinder driver requirements
> and allow upgrades to work
> without outright immediately removing a driver.
>    1. Add a 'supported = True' attribute to every driver.
>    2. When a driver no longer meets Cinder community requirements, put a
>    patch up against the driver
>    3. When c-vol service starts, check the supported flag.  If the flag
>    is False, then log an exception, and disable the driver.
>    4. Allow the admin to put an entry in cinder.conf for the driver in
>    question "enable_unsupported_driver = True".  This will allow the c-vol
>    service to start the driver and allow it to work.  Log a warning on every
>    driver call.
>    5. This is a positive acknowledgement by the operator that they are
>    enabling a potentially broken driver. Use at your own risk.
>    6. If the vendor doesn't get the CI working in the next release, then
>    remove the driver.
>    7. If the vendor gets the CI working again, then set the supported
>    flag back to True and all is good.
> This allows a deprecation period for a driver, and keeps operators who
> upgrade their deployment from losing access to their volumes they have on
> those back-ends.  It will give them time to contact the community and/or do
> some research, and find out what happened to the driver.   This also
> potentially gives the operator time to find a new supported backend and
> start migrating volumes.  I say potentially, because the driver may be
> broken, or it may work enough to migrate volumes off of it to a new backend.
> Having unsupported drivers in tree is terrible for the Cinder community,
> and in the long run terrible for operators.
> Instantly removing drivers because CI is unstable is terrible for
> operators in the short term, because as soon as they upgrade OpenStack,
> they lose all access to managing their existing volumes.   Just because we
> leave a driver in tree in this state, doesn't mean that the operator will
> be able to migrate if the drive is broken, but they'll have a chance
> depending on the state of the driver in question.  It could be horribly
> broken, but the breakage might be something fixable by someone that just
> knows Python.   If the driver is gone from tree entirely, then that's a lot
> more to overcome.
> I don't think there is a way to make everyone happy all the time, but I
> think this buys operators a small window of opportunity to still manage
> their existing volumes before the driver is removed.  It also still allows
> the Cinder community to deal with unsupported drivers in a way that will
> motivate vendors to keep their stuff working.
> My $0.02
> Walt
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> ​Walt's suggestion seems like a decent progression forward to me.  It is a
reasonable compromise and at least a step forward.​
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